Major attack on Israel by Hamas

[MaxPC]

Trouble is. The border at Egypt is closed. 2 million Gazans have nowhere to go.

I recall that the border was closed to Hamas, not the civilians.

[temporal1]

I think this is the wrong assessment - Israel is not and never had been committed to the annihilation of the Palestinians. Whereas, the Palestinians as recently as Saturday publicly reiterated their 70-year old commitment to wiping Israel from the face of the earth. A useful heuristic for me in a situation like this is: If one side is committed to the genocidal destruction of the other; that side is the wrong side.”

We can both sides this all day but when it comes down to it one side:
Rapes
Kidnaps
Holds Hostages for Ransom
Targets civilians
Is committed to the complete destruction of the other

Israel has done a lot wrong, but they’re not that. If they fail to stop Hamas they will have failed at their function as a state.

i trust your understanding more than my own. my view was based on some bits of reported response following this present attack, i’ll see if i can find specifics .. i’m not sure. there is a lot being reported, emotions are high, and it is about Hamas.

i’m nervous about terrorists targeting in the U.S. and elsewhere. they are, by defnition, ruthless.

i didn’t look for the source i was referencing. not attempting to address history.
here’s a new quote to the same end from NYT’s The Morning, David Leonhardt:

.. Global outrage
Both sides know that Israel is on the verge of a full-scale invasion of Gaza, intended to destroy Hamas and prevent future attacks.
Israelis seem largely united behind this goal, despite their political divisions: Hamas’s attacks have killed at least 1,200 Israelis — relative to population size, the equivalent of around 44,000 Americans.

Many victims were defenseless civilians. One video shows a group of armed Hamas members marching four Israelis, with their hands tied behind their backs, down a street. Another video, analyzed by The Washington Post, shows the four lying on the same street, shot dead. .. ..

attempt to explain my earlier words, nothing more.
i’m distraught. i just began listening to a lecture on the (world wide) Middle Ages.

[Valerie]

There is a difference between “stand with Hamas” and a position such as my own, which is that hundreds of Palestinian children shouldn’t have bombs dropped on them.

Agreed. War is evil no matter what. In fact it is why many I talk to won't believe because of the God they read about in Old Testament. It was no worse what He demanded in some ways and people take issue with it. They cannot reconcile a God of love with the history of OT commands of killing every man woman and child God called for

God commanded that pagans with detestable idolatrous practices so wicked I’d rather not type them here be wiped out… yet be also offered a path of salvation to those who sought righteousness, such as the harlot Rahab.

Of course. Much easier to understand all this when you already are a Christian. My most recent discussion with 25 yr old can't or really won't believe as no matter what he cannot see a loving God not only allowing what He does, but what He did in OT. I've heard it from many. I do know of some Christians who have hard time with OT.

Anyway back to present war

[RZehr]

So what if Israel would give Gaza residents who agree to not commit violence against Israelis, to live in Israel? Those who want Israel removed could stay in Gaza.

I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking. It would indeed be a strange Hamas member, to be truly committed to the annihilation of Israel, and agree not to commit violence against Israelis. That might take some convincing.

As I understand, only 50% of Gazans support Hamas and perhaps more than 50% would have discouraged attacking Israel if they could have done so anonymously. I'm quite sure that the few Christians in Gaza are not behind Hamas. I don't think these nonviolent folks should be confined to an area 6 miles by 25 miles for decades with no room to expand. The Jews and others came and took away their land and forced them onto a "reserve". The US did the same thing but eventually allowed native Americans to move back onto their land. I think the same should happen in Israel. The parallels between US colonization/pushing native Americans out of their home areas as compared with what is happening in Israel, seems very similar to me.

I agree 100% that it is a bad deal in Gaza for all the innocent civilians. I don't know, from a secular, worldly standpoint, what other options a country such as Israel has, beyond what it is doing. It might be a case of either the innocent civilians in Gaza suffer by being restricted to that area, or innocent Israeli civilians get killed by Hamas. If Hamas quit trying to kill people, Israel would too. It doesn't go the other way though. If Israel stopped killing people, Hamas would continue killing people. That is a very critical distinction, that cannot be discounted.

I suppose as long as the Native Americans were on the warpath (Or if the whites thought they were a danger. And again, the war path was probably not made up by women and children. I'm sure there would have been some Indian people who were quite innocent), they were subject to having their villages razed, and everyone massacred. This is the way of war. I don't believe that the Indians would have enjoyed any peace ever, if they had not surrendered. I live a few miles from a reservation, and if they were trying to annihilate all white people, and overthrow the government, you can bet that the American government would have them hemmed in just as the people in Gaza are.

War is terrible. Innocents always are killed and suffer. This is one more reason to be peacemakers, and have no part of war. Every war is like this, such things must come to pass, according to Matthew.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Trouble is. The border at Egypt is closed. 2 million Gazans have nowhere to go.

I recall that the border was closed to Hamas, not the civilians.

Rafah crossing is currently closed. It was just hit by an Israeli air strike.

It was open to limited traffic. Historically, Egypt only permitted Palestinians with third country visas to enter.

[temporal1]

Ben Shapiro / I Am a Jew / 8.34min


Ben Shapiro / May God Avenge Their Blood / 1hr 7min

[MaxPC]

Trouble is. The border at Egypt is closed. 2 million Gazans have nowhere to go.

I recall that the border was closed to Hamas, not the civilians.

Rafah crossing is currently closed. It was just hit by an Israeli air strike.

It was open to limited traffic. Historically, Egypt only permitted Palestinians with third country visas to enter.

It is my understanding that other crossings are permitting civilian refugees to enter. Israel has been communicating with Egypt and the other states bordering Israel.

[MaxPC]

I agree 100% that it is a bad deal in Gaza for all the innocent civilians. I don't know, from a secular, worldly standpoint, what other options a country such as Israel has, beyond what it is doing. It might be a case of either the innocent civilians in Gaza suffer by being restricted to that area, or innocent Israeli civilians get killed by Hamas. If Hamas quit trying to kill people, Israel would too. It doesn't go the other way though. If Israel stopped killing people, Hamas would continue killing people. That is a very critical distinction, that cannot be discounted.

War is terrible. Innocents always are killed and suffer. This is one more reason to be peacemakers, and have no part of war. Every war is like this, such things must come to pass, according to Matthew.

Spot on. We need to remember that Hezbollah has also been attacking Israel from the north and the east with their rockets and mortars.
We are not called to judge Israel in this matter as you noted and referenced Matthew. These are secular matters, not Anabaptist, nor Catholic, nor any other Christian denomination. Secular. We are called to pray and to demonstrate Christ's way through our individual lives.

[RZehr]

An American mom, 67, spent her life advocating for Palestinian rights. Then, Hamas came for her.
SHEFAYIM KIBBUTZ, Israel − They exchanged text messages and emojis. Brief status updates with words of encouragement. A picture of the beloved family dog "Tutsi."

Until no more messages came.

And then, Cindy Flash, an American, and her Israeli husband, Igal, vanished into the violence, presumed kidnapped by Hamas.

Four days after Hamas attacked Israel, more than 100 Israelis and potentially dozens of foreign nationals are thought to be held captive in the Gaza Strip. At least 14 U.S. citizens have been killed and an unknown number are still unaccounted for. Flash, 67, originally from St. Paul, Minnesota, is one of them. She lives in Kfar Aza, a kibbutz in southern Israel near Gaza, where some of the most harrowing and grisly stories have been emerging during the last few days.

"They are breaking down the safe room door," Flash said in one of her final messages to her daughter Keren, 34. "We need someone to come by the house right now." She had been communicating with her parents from a few houses away.

Keren described her mother, who worked as an administrator in a local college, as someone who had the "sweetest biggest heart," who everyone knew and loved, and who had spent a lifetime advocating for the rights of Palestinians, including those who live in Gaza where she may now be held.

Cindy and Igal's home in Kfar Aza sits right next to the security fence Hamas broke through on Saturday morning as they attacked Israel by land, sea and air.

They had recently renovated it, requiring a move away from the kibbutz for a few months.

"They were so happy to be back," said Keren.

And their daughter said that despite their proximity to Gaza, everyone in the family had always felt secure and reveled in their area's lush vegetation, tranquility and sense of community.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/american-mom ... 59057.html

I hope they are alive. And I doubt Hamas will apologize to her.

[Josh]

I recall that the border was closed to Hamas, not the civilians.

Rafah crossing is currently closed. It was just hit by an Israeli air strike.

It was open to limited traffic. Historically, Egypt only permitted Palestinians with third country visas to enter.

It is my understanding that other crossings are permitting civilian refugees to enter. Israel has been communicating with Egypt and the other states bordering Israel.

There are no other crossings. Gaza has two borders, Israel and Egypt, which are closed and neither country is accepting asylum seekers/refugees from Gaza.