Major attack on Israel by Hamas

[MaxPC]

So they could continue to use Gaza as a staging ground for terrorism and intafadas?

It certainly is a difficult decision. The situations need God’s direct intervention.

[HondurasKeiser]

This is not justice.

The bits i’m seeing look and sound grisly, two enemies committed to complete annihilation of the other.
This results in unlimited, unmitigated “collateral damage” of innocents.

“Death is death,” has its limits; even in courts of (U.S.) law, heinous crimes can be, and are expected to be, judged more harshly.
There are historical differences in how cultures view heinous acts. Repulsion incites anger and desire for vengeance.

It’s all so dismaying. (i suppose) there will be an uptick in (authentic) terrorist attacks around the world. Bloody attacks.
Not young mothers attending school board meetings in attempt to peacefully protect their young ones from perversion, porn and smut.

God have mercy.

I think this is the wrong assessment - Israel is not and never had been committed to the annihilation of the Palestinians. Whereas, the Palestinians as recently as Saturday publicly reiterated their 70-year old commitment to wiping Israel from the face of the earth. A useful heuristic for me in a situation like this is: If one side is committed to the genocidal destruction of the other; that side is the wrong side.”

We can both sides this all day but when it comes down to it one side:
Rapes
Kidnaps
Holds Hostages for Ransom
Targets civilians
Is committed to the complete destruction of the other


Israel has done a lot wrong, but they’re not that. If they fail to stop Hamas they will have failed at their function as a state.

[HondurasKeiser]

Hamas is committed to the removal of the Israel state.

I don't see anything about this problem that can be connected to God's promise to Israel, and my sympathies (whatever I may have) are not based on prophesies about Israel. I just know people there, have visited there a couple times, and I come away thinking that regarding Gaza, Israel has been forced into the defensive position because of Hamas.

So what if Israel would give Gaza residents who agree to not commit violence against Israelis, to live in Israel? Those who want Israel removed could stay in Gaza.

I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking. It would indeed be a strange Hamas member, to be truly committed to the annihilation of Israel, and agree not to commit violence against Israelis. That might take some convincing.

It is my understanding that Israel does sort of do that. Since 2021 at least, they give some of the Palestinians work permits that allow them to come and go from both the West Bank and Gaza. And last year, they increased the number. And it is my understanding that Israel was set to increase the number of work permits this year too. I don’t know though, what the process is, if any, for these people to live permanently in Israel. It would seem like a reasonable progression to go from work permits, to permanent residency.

But now Hamas has probably torpedoed any progress on this matter.

Indeed, more of those work permits were granted the day before the attack.

[RZehr]

Hamas is committed to the removal of the Israel state. They constantly are attacking. No other country on earth would tolerate that, but somehow Israel gets a bad rap for trying to block their attacks.

Hamas is not the same thing as Palestine. Nobody I know of criticizes anyone for blocking attacks.

I think both Israel and Palestine have had plenty of attacks by the other.

Hamas is the elected government of Gaza and according to recent public opinion polls is supported by roughly half the population of Gaza. So they are essentially as legitimate as either the Republican or Democratic parties.

Would it be more fair to compare Hamas to something like Xi’s Communist party in China, or Putin’s United Russia party?

[Valerie]

For all who supported Black Lives Matter,they just announced that they "stand with Hamas"

Well, it was one local BLM office in Chicago. But yes, rather abhorrent of them. Basically no different than the various conservatives who side with Russia in the Ukraine war. All of them are endorsing terrorism.

I don't know people supporting Russia but I do know ow people who are not supporting Ukraines government. Just pointing out BLM was duped many Masquerading their real cause

[Ken]

Hamas is not the same thing as Palestine. Nobody I know of criticizes anyone for blocking attacks.

I think both Israel and Palestine have had plenty of attacks by the other.

Hamas is the elected government of Gaza and according to recent public opinion polls is supported by roughly half the population of Gaza. So they are essentially as legitimate as either the Republican or Democratic parties.

Would it be more fair to compare Hamas to something like Xi’s Communist party in China, or Putin’s United Russia party?

They are probably more like the hard-line "principalists" in Iran in that they are a hard-line Islamist party.

Terrorism and targeting of civilians is a depressingly common tactic around the world from Ireland and Colombia to Sri Lanka and Myanmar as well as pretty much every single political struggle that involves Islam from Nigeria to Syria to the Philippines.

Hamas is nothing more than par for the course and would frankly merit little attention if this was happening any place else but Israel. If this same thing happened in say Nigeria no one would be talking about it. But since Israel has such a close connection to the US, terrorism there is elevated in the news here to a far greater extent than anyplace else. For example, about 13,000 children have been killed in Myanmar due to the campaign of terror waged by the current military dictatorship since 2021. How many of them have made the front page news in the US? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar_c ... n%20killed. In Yemen the number is over 10,000 children killed: https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/m ... r%20higher. In Ukraine the number of children killed by Russian terror attacks on civilian targets is over 5,000 and probably much higher: https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-war-chi ... ugust%2013.

[temporal1]

I think this is the wrong assessment - Israel is not and never had been committed to the annihilation of the Palestinians. Whereas, the Palestinians as recently as Saturday publicly reiterated their 70-year old commitment to wiping Israel from the face of the earth. A useful heuristic for me in a situation like this is: If one side is committed to the genocidal destruction of the other; that side is the wrong side.”

We can both sides this all day but when it comes down to it one side:
Rapes
Kidnaps
Holds Hostages for Ransom
Targets civilians
Is committed to the complete destruction of the other

Israel has done a lot wrong, but they’re not that. If they fail to stop Hamas they will have failed at their function as a state.

i trust your understanding more than my own. my view was based on some bits of reported response following this present attack, i’ll see if i can find specifics .. i’m not sure. there is a lot being reported, emotions are high, and it is about Hamas.

i’m nervous about terrorists targeting in the U.S. and elsewhere. they are, by defnition, ruthless.

[temporal1]

For all who supported Black Lives Matter,they just announced that they "stand with Hamas"

NYC DSA apologizes for promoting pro-Palestinian rally — but doesn’t condemn Hamas
https://nypost.com/2023/10/10/nyc-dsa-a ... emn-hamas/

[RZehr]

Hamas is the elected government of Gaza and according to recent public opinion polls is supported by roughly half the population of Gaza. So they are essentially as legitimate as either the Republican or Democratic parties.

Would it be more fair to compare Hamas to something like Xi’s Communist party in China, or Putin’s United Russia party?

They are probably more like the hard-line "principalists" in Iran in that they are a hard-line Islamist party.

Terrorism and targeting of civilians is a depressingly common tactic around the world from Ireland and Colombia to Sri Lanka and Myanmar as well as pretty much every single political struggle that involves Islam from Nigeria to Syria to the Philippines.

Hamas is nothing more than par for the course and would frankly merit little attention if this was happening any place else but Israel. If this same thing happened in say Nigeria no one would be talking about it. But since Israel has such a close connection to the US, terrorism there is elevated in the news here to a far greater extent than anyplace else. For example, about 13,000 children have been killed in Myanmar due to the campaign of terror waged by the current military dictatorship since 2021. How many of them have made the front page news in the US? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar_c ... n%20killed. In Yemen the number is over 10,000 children killed: https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/m ... r%20higher. In Ukraine the number of children killed by Russian terror attacks on civilian targets is over 5,000 and probably much higher: https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-war-chi ... ugust%2013.

Ya. I don’t think that that Republicans and Democrats are the very best comparison to make for Hamas, other than they all three political parties. But they aren’t all three militants - only Hamas is.

[Ken]

Would it be more fair to compare Hamas to something like Xi’s Communist party in China, or Putin’s United Russia party?

They are probably more like the hard-line "principalists" in Iran in that they are a hard-line Islamist party.

Terrorism and targeting of civilians is a depressingly common tactic around the world from Ireland and Colombia to Sri Lanka and Myanmar as well as pretty much every single political struggle that involves Islam from Nigeria to Syria to the Philippines.

Hamas is nothing more than par for the course and would frankly merit little attention if this was happening any place else but Israel. If this same thing happened in say Nigeria no one would be talking about it. But since Israel has such a close connection to the US, terrorism there is elevated in the news here to a far greater extent than anyplace else. For example, about 13,000 children have been killed in Myanmar due to the campaign of terror waged by the current military dictatorship since 2021. How many of them have made the front page news in the US? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar_c ... n%20killed. In Yemen the number is over 10,000 children killed: https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/m ... r%20higher. In Ukraine the number of children killed by Russian terror attacks on civilian targets is over 5,000 and probably much higher: https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-war-chi ... ugust%2013.

Ya. I don’t think that that Republicans and Democrats are the very best comparison to make for Hamas, other than they all three political parties. But they aren’t all three militants - only Hamas is.

I wasn't comparing Hamas to Republicans or Democrats in terms of POLICY. I was comparing them in terms of legitimacy. They are the elected government of Gaza and have roughly the same level of public support in Gaza as either the Democratic or Republican parties here in the US. That was my point. They are not some fringe outside group with few followers.