Cultural Separation from Parents

[Ken]

I recognize that you want to conflate traditional nicknames with gender transitioning. But its different. Albeit, in your memory in ancient past (pre-trans rights), were teachers compelled and coerced into calling a student by that students preferred nickname? And required to keep such name shortening knowledge from parents? The answer is no. So lets be done with this silly rhetorical charade that nothing has changed.

I'm not conflating anything.

Teachers (and the rest of society) routinely accommodate student's preferred choice of name regardless of the reason why. And students have dozens of different reasons why they might wish to go by a different name in class. It would be inequitable and discriminatory treatment for a teacher to routinely let all their other students choose how they wish to be addressed in class and then only single out trans (or suspected trans) students for special treatment. There is every reason to allow students to choose how they wish to be addressed in class and absolutely no reason to call out students you suspect of being trans for different discriminatory treatment.

As for keeping things from parents? Schools shouldn't be in the business of constantly policing student behavior that doesn't violate school rules, isn't disruptive, and isn't illegal. We don't live in a communist police state. Students do have some rights to privacy. What exactly do you think should be the procedure here? For schools to call home to report on students any time they do something that some parent somewhere might disapprove of? I have a Muslim student who is friendly to the boy across from her in her table group. Should I call her conservative Muslim parents and tell on her that she is acting friendly towards a non-Muslim boy? And maybe get her beaten? If I have a Hindu boy and see him eating a hamburger in the cafeteria, should I rush back to my room and call his mother to report that he is violating his religious dietary rules? None of that sort of thing is the responsibility of teachers and schools to police.

Talk to your children. And if they aren't sharing important aspects of their lives and identity with you then they obviously don't trust you and you should take a look in the mirror and ask why. Because that is where the real problem lies and not with the fact that some teacher didn't call to inform you that your student asked use a different name in class.

As for other accommodations that are actually an imposition on others and the school. Like bathroom accommodations, locker room or sports team accommodations? Those should only be approved by the school though the same level of coordinated review and agreement that are required for Special Education, 504, and medical accommodations. Namely by all the adults involved: Parents, counselors, doctors/psychologists, etc. Schools should no more implement those sorts of accommodations on just the say so of a teenager than they should implement medical or special education accommodations on the say so of a teenager. In other words, if you need a parent signature and doctors note to get out of PE for some medical reason, then you should also need some similar parent signature and doctor or psychologist's report to attend the opposite sex PE.

[ken_sylvania]

I recognize that you want to conflate traditional nicknames with gender transitioning. But its different. Albeit, in your memory in ancient past (pre-trans rights), were teachers compelled and coerced into calling a student by that students preferred nickname? And required to keep such name shortening knowledge from parents? The answer is no. So lets be done with this silly rhetorical charade that nothing has changed.

I'm not conflating anything.

Teachers (and the rest of society) routinely accommodate student's preferred choice of name regardless of the reason why. And students have dozens of different reasons why they might wish to go by a different name in class. It would be inequitable and discriminatory treatment for a teacher to routinely let all their other students choose how they wish to be addressed in class and then only single out trans (or suspected trans) students for special treatment. There is every reason to allow students to choose how they wish to be addressed in class and absolutely no reason to call out students you suspect of being trans for different discriminatory treatment.

As for keeping things from parents? Schools shouldn't be in the business of constantly policing student behavior that doesn't violate school rules, isn't disruptive, and isn't illegal. We don't live in a communist police state. Students do have some rights to privacy. What exactly do you think should be the procedure here? For schools to call home to report on students any time they do something that some parent somewhere might disapprove of? I have a Muslim student who is friendly to the boy across from her in her table group. Should I call her conservative Muslim parents and tell on her that she is acting friendly towards a non-Muslim boy? And maybe get her beaten? If I have a Hindu boy and see him eating a hamburger in the cafeteria, should I rush back to my room and call his mother to report that he is violating his religious dietary rules? None of that sort of thing is the responsibility of teachers and schools to police.

Talk to your children. And if they aren't sharing important aspects of their lives and identity with you then they obviously don't trust you and you should take a look in the mirror and ask why. Because that is where the real problem lies and not with the fact that some teacher didn't call to inform you that your student asked use a different name in class.

As for other accommodations that are actually an imposition on others and the school. Like bathroom accommodations, locker room or sports team accommodations? Those should only be approved by the school though the same level of coordinated review and agreement that are required for Special Education, 504, and medical accommodations. Namely by all the adults involved: Parents, counselors, doctors/psychologists, etc. Schools should no more implement those sorts of accommodations on just the say so of a teenager than they should implement medical or special education accommodations on the say so of a teenager. In other words, if you need a parent signature and doctors note to get out of PE for some medical reason, then you should also need some similar parent signature and doctor or psychologist's report to attend the opposite sex PE.

If your school has a student named William who goes by Bill, will the school provide secondary diploma and transcript with the name Bill? Will they restrict access to all of his official records that include his legal name?
How about if William says he is a girl and calls himself Katy? Does the answer change?

[ken_sylvania]

There's a school district not real far from here that has a policy specifically stating that, if the parents of a child do not support their "gender transition", school staff should provide the student with information and referrals to resources that will support them in changing their gender identity, regardless of what the student's parents say. Notably absent is any kind of policy requiring such referrals for Eduardo if his parents forbid him to go by the nickname Ed.

[Ken]

I recognize that you want to conflate traditional nicknames with gender transitioning. But its different. Albeit, in your memory in ancient past (pre-trans rights), were teachers compelled and coerced into calling a student by that students preferred nickname? And required to keep such name shortening knowledge from parents? The answer is no. So lets be done with this silly rhetorical charade that nothing has changed.

I'm not conflating anything.

Teachers (and the rest of society) routinely accommodate student's preferred choice of name regardless of the reason why. And students have dozens of different reasons why they might wish to go by a different name in class. It would be inequitable and discriminatory treatment for a teacher to routinely let all their other students choose how they wish to be addressed in class and then only single out trans (or suspected trans) students for special treatment. There is every reason to allow students to choose how they wish to be addressed in class and absolutely no reason to call out students you suspect of being trans for different discriminatory treatment.

As for keeping things from parents? Schools shouldn't be in the business of constantly policing student behavior that doesn't violate school rules, isn't disruptive, and isn't illegal. We don't live in a communist police state. Students do have some rights to privacy. What exactly do you think should be the procedure here? For schools to call home to report on students any time they do something that some parent somewhere might disapprove of? I have a Muslim student who is friendly to the boy across from her in her table group. Should I call her conservative Muslim parents and tell on her that she is acting friendly towards a non-Muslim boy? And maybe get her beaten? If I have a Hindu boy and see him eating a hamburger in the cafeteria, should I rush back to my room and call his mother to report that he is violating his religious dietary rules? None of that sort of thing is the responsibility of teachers and schools to police.

Talk to your children. And if they aren't sharing important aspects of their lives and identity with you then they obviously don't trust you and you should take a look in the mirror and ask why. Because that is where the real problem lies and not with the fact that some teacher didn't call to inform you that your student asked use a different name in class.

As for other accommodations that are actually an imposition on others and the school. Like bathroom accommodations, locker room or sports team accommodations? Those should only be approved by the school though the same level of coordinated review and agreement that are required for Special Education, 504, and medical accommodations. Namely by all the adults involved: Parents, counselors, doctors/psychologists, etc. Schools should no more implement those sorts of accommodations on just the say so of a teenager than they should implement medical or special education accommodations on the say so of a teenager. In other words, if you need a parent signature and doctors note to get out of PE for some medical reason, then you should also need some similar parent signature and doctor or psychologist's report to attend the opposite sex PE.

If your school has a student named William who goes by Bill, will the school provide secondary diploma and transcript with the name Bill? Will they restrict access to all of his official records that include his legal name?
How about if William says he is a girl and calls himself Katy? Does the answer change?

All the official school records and transcripts reflect the student's legal name that is on the birth certificate and are cross-referenced to the student's social security number and date of birth. Parents need to present the student's birth certificate when they first register the student for school. And I'm guessing that they would need to bring in an amended birth certificate in order to change the name on the student's official record and transcript. Although I'm not a school registrar so I'm not exactly sure what process they follow. Remember that schools keep student records on file for decades (permanently really) so if you were to request a transcript for a student who graduated in 1959 and the school has been around that long then they would likely be able to produce it from their archived records with the student name, social security number, and year of graduation.

If a student has officially and legally changed their name and presented all of that information to the school registrar then I would expect all the school records would be permanently changed. And if they wanted to edit the official record to reflect a different gender then they would need to present an official birth certificate to that effect. This happens much more frequently for things like adoptions. Or say a father abandons the family, the mother remarries, and the student takes on the last name of the new stepfather. Than it ever does for transgender students. One of my daughter's friends legally changed her name after her father left and her mother remarried. She did a legal name change through the county clerk's office and then changed all her school records after that. Although in that case she changed her last name from her biological father's name to her mother's maiden name, not her stepfather's last name.

On the other hand, if a student named Christopher goes by Chip, Chris, Christian, Po, Christophe, Stoffie, Pooh*, Crissie, or Christine with his friends. And the teacher accommodates his wish to go by the name he wants to use then fine. But that has no meaning outside that particular class or conversation. Conservative Anabaptist and Amish world is full of nicknames too, but none of it means anything unless they legalize it.

*And yes, I have had a student who went by Pooh in class and school. His given name was Devontre. He was a star football player who was a 4-star recruit and went on to play for Baylor where they called him that too: https://247sports.com/player/pooh-stricklin-34977/ He carried the nickname forward from childhood. Honestly no one cared.

[ken_sylvania]

I'm not conflating anything.

Teachers (and the rest of society) routinely accommodate student's preferred choice of name regardless of the reason why. And students have dozens of different reasons why they might wish to go by a different name in class. It would be inequitable and discriminatory treatment for a teacher to routinely let all their other students choose how they wish to be addressed in class and then only single out trans (or suspected trans) students for special treatment. There is every reason to allow students to choose how they wish to be addressed in class and absolutely no reason to call out students you suspect of being trans for different discriminatory treatment.

As for keeping things from parents? Schools shouldn't be in the business of constantly policing student behavior that doesn't violate school rules, isn't disruptive, and isn't illegal. We don't live in a communist police state. Students do have some rights to privacy. What exactly do you think should be the procedure here? For schools to call home to report on students any time they do something that some parent somewhere might disapprove of? I have a Muslim student who is friendly to the boy across from her in her table group. Should I call her conservative Muslim parents and tell on her that she is acting friendly towards a non-Muslim boy? And maybe get her beaten? If I have a Hindu boy and see him eating a hamburger in the cafeteria, should I rush back to my room and call his mother to report that he is violating his religious dietary rules? None of that sort of thing is the responsibility of teachers and schools to police.

Talk to your children. And if they aren't sharing important aspects of their lives and identity with you then they obviously don't trust you and you should take a look in the mirror and ask why. Because that is where the real problem lies and not with the fact that some teacher didn't call to inform you that your student asked use a different name in class.

As for other accommodations that are actually an imposition on others and the school. Like bathroom accommodations, locker room or sports team accommodations? Those should only be approved by the school though the same level of coordinated review and agreement that are required for Special Education, 504, and medical accommodations. Namely by all the adults involved: Parents, counselors, doctors/psychologists, etc. Schools should no more implement those sorts of accommodations on just the say so of a teenager than they should implement medical or special education accommodations on the say so of a teenager. In other words, if you need a parent signature and doctors note to get out of PE for some medical reason, then you should also need some similar parent signature and doctor or psychologist's report to attend the opposite sex PE.

If your school has a student named William who goes by Bill, will the school provide secondary diploma and transcript with the name Bill? Will they restrict access to all of his official records that include his legal name?
How about if William says he is a girl and calls himself Katy? Does the answer change?

All the official school records and transcripts reflect the student's legal name that is on the birth certificate and are cross-referenced to the student's social security number and date of birth. Parents need to present the student's birth certificate when they first register the student for school. And I'm guessing that they would need to bring in an amended birth certificate in order to change the name on the student's official record and transcript. Although I'm not a school registrar so I'm not exactly sure what process they follow. Remember that schools keep student records on file for decades (permanently really) so if you were to request a transcript for a student who graduated in 1959 and the school has been around that long then they would likely be able to produce it from their archived records with the student name, social security number, and year of graduation.

If a student has officially and legally changed their name and presented all of that information to the school registrar then I would expect all the school records would be permanently changed. And if they wanted to edit the official record to reflect a different gender then they would need to present an official birth certificate to that effect. This happens much more frequently for things like adoptions. Or say a father abandons the family, the mother remarries, and the student takes on the last name of the new stepfather. Than it ever does for transgender students. One of my daughter's friends legally changed her name after her father left and her mother remarried. She did a legal name change through the county clerk's office and then changed all her school records after that. Although in that case she changed her last name from her biological father's name to her mother's maiden name, not her stepfather's last name.

On the other hand, if a student named Christopher goes by Chip, Chris, Christian, Po, Christophe, Stoffie, Pooh*, Crissie, or Christine with his friends. And the teacher accommodates his wish to go by the name he wants to use then fine. But that has no meaning outside that particular class or conversation. Conservative Anabaptist and Amish world is full of nicknames too, but none of it means anything unless they legalize it.

*And yes, I have had a student who went by Pooh in class and school. His given name was Devontre. He was a star football player who was a 4-star recruit and went on to play for Baylor where they called him that too: https://247sports.com/player/pooh-stricklin-34977/ He carried the nickname forward from childhood. Honestly no one cared.

You didn't answer the question.

[Ken]

If your school has a student named William who goes by Bill, will the school provide secondary diploma and transcript with the name Bill? Will they restrict access to all of his official records that include his legal name?
How about if William says he is a girl and calls himself Katy? Does the answer change?

All the official school records and transcripts reflect the student's legal name that is on the birth certificate and are cross-referenced to the student's social security number and date of birth. Parents need to present the student's birth certificate when they first register the student for school. And I'm guessing that they would need to bring in an amended birth certificate in order to change the name on the student's official record and transcript. Although I'm not a school registrar so I'm not exactly sure what process they follow. Remember that schools keep student records on file for decades (permanently really) so if you were to request a transcript for a student who graduated in 1959 and the school has been around that long then they would likely be able to produce it from their archived records with the student name, social security number, and year of graduation.

If a student has officially and legally changed their name and presented all of that information to the school registrar then I would expect all the school records would be permanently changed. And if they wanted to edit the official record to reflect a different gender then they would need to present an official birth certificate to that effect. This happens much more frequently for things like adoptions. Or say a father abandons the family, the mother remarries, and the student takes on the last name of the new stepfather. Than it ever does for transgender students. One of my daughter's friends legally changed her name after her father left and her mother remarried. She did a legal name change through the county clerk's office and then changed all her school records after that. Although in that case she changed her last name from her biological father's name to her mother's maiden name, not her stepfather's last name.

On the other hand, if a student named Christopher goes by Chip, Chris, Christian, Po, Christophe, Stoffie, Pooh*, Crissie, or Christine with his friends. And the teacher accommodates his wish to go by the name he wants to use then fine. But that has no meaning outside that particular class or conversation. Conservative Anabaptist and Amish world is full of nicknames too, but none of it means anything unless they legalize it.

*And yes, I have had a student who went by Pooh in class and school. His given name was Devontre. He was a star football player who was a 4-star recruit and went on to play for Baylor where they called him that too: https://247sports.com/player/pooh-stricklin-34977/ He carried the nickname forward from childhood. Honestly no one cared.

You didn't answer the question.

I did answer the question. My school won't change any student's name on the student's official record (transcript or diploma) without a legal name change and new birth certificate. Or at least an official court document reflecting the change of name. I doubt any school will. There are probably laws to that effect.

There is no such thing as a secondary diploma or secondary transcript. Or "frozen records" that I am aware of. At least not around here. There is only one set of records per student and it reflects the student's legal name and gender. If you want to change that, you need to go through the normal legal name change process with the state first.

[ken_sylvania]

There is no such thing as a secondary diploma or secondary transcript. Or "frozen records" that I am aware of. At least not around here. There is only one set of records per student and it reflects the student's legal name and gender. If you want to change that, you need to go through the normal legal name change process with the state first.

In Fairfax County, VA there is. If a transgender student asks for a second transcript with their "assumed" name the school will provide it. Legal name change not required.

[Ken]

There is no such thing as a secondary diploma or secondary transcript. Or "frozen records" that I am aware of. At least not around here. There is only one set of records per student and it reflects the student's legal name and gender. If you want to change that, you need to go through the normal legal name change process with the state first.

In Fairfax County, VA there is. If a transgender student asks for a second transcript with their "assumed" name the school will provide it. Legal name change not required.

OK, not something I’ve ever heard of before. They don’t do that here.

But still. So what? How does that affect anyone else or cause “cultural separation from parents?”

An amended transcript with a different name isn’t going to be of much use to anyone unless it matches their other records anyway. The only people who ever look at a HS transcript are universities and employers. And they are going to want to see social security cards, drivers licenses, etc. So I don’t actually see the point. Anyone who is 18 (and most HS grads are) can get a legal name change and sex change in Virginia then go to the school and get the records officially changed. What is the point of a secondary transcript with an assumed name that doesn’t match other records? What use is it?

[Josh]

Teenagers experiment with all kinds of new identities when growing up.

Teenagers did not used to "experiment" with pretending to the opposite sex. That is an entirely novel phenomenon.

[Ken]

Teenagers experiment with all kinds of new identities when growing up.

Teenagers did not used to "experiment" with pretending to the opposite sex. That is an entirely novel phenomenon.

Sure they have. Every form of unconventional gender expression is as old as time itself in virtually every culture in the world. It has just been much more clandestine in the past because people weren’t safe to be public about it.