No human remains found 2 years after claims of ‘mass graves’ in Canada

[Szdfan]

The issue isn't that these students received a Catholic education. The issue is that in many cases, education was coerced and children were separated from their parents with the intention of weakening family bonds so that the children could be acculturated. That's what makes this cultural genocide.

Which was entirely conducted by government bureaucrats doing what they claimed was in the “best interests of the child”.

With the cooperation and involvement of the church.

[Josh]

The issue isn't that these students received a Catholic education. The issue is that in many cases, education was coerced and children were separated from their parents with the intention of weakening family bonds so that the children could be acculturated. That's what makes this cultural genocide.

Which was entirely conducted by government bureaucrats doing what they claimed was in the “best interests of the child”.

With the cooperation and involvement of the church.

If the government is forcibly removing children from their parents’ homes, I don’t see what’s wrong with trying to help improve the situation.

It was entirely power-tripping government bureaucrats that removed the children. Blaming the Catholic Church is like blaming foster parents.

[Szdfan]

Which was entirely conducted by government bureaucrats doing what they claimed was in the “best interests of the child”.

government bureaucrats, now like obama .. biden .. they’re in numbers ..
there could be hope Christianity could not be further blamed .. however .. however .. (cough)

Lots is done under the guise of the Christian label.
The label is alternately flaunted/attacked as deemed convenient in the moment. That’s politics.

Every group does bad things at some point. The healthy response is to take responsibility, apologize, make restitution if possible and try to do better in the future. Deflection and blame shifting is not healthy.

[temporal1]

Which was entirely conducted by government bureaucrats doing what they claimed was in the “best interests of the child”.

government bureaucrats, now like obama .. biden .. they’re in numbers ..
there could be hope Christianity could not be further blamed .. however .. however .. (cough)

Lots is done under the guise of the Christian label.
The label is alternately flaunted/attacked as deemed convenient in the moment. That’s politics.

Every group does bad things at some point.
The healthy response is to take responsibility, apologize, make restitution if possible and try to do better in the future.
Deflection and blame shifting is not healthy.

i couldn’t agree more. Reflect history in perspective, and give credit where credit is due.
Perpetual victimhood mentality is destructive.
Unfortunately, now that it’s rewarded via gov policy, will it ever (be allowed to) end?

Jesus loved victims.
He didn’t tell them to dedicate their lives to it. Conversely, He empowered them (not through gov incentives.)

P.8:

Boarding schools for Native children exist in Canada as well but now they are funded and administrated by groups of small first nations. My wife knows the principal of one in northern Ontario.

The leadership, and maybe all the staff are native, so it's not like the boarding schools of old.
The students go home for breaks in the school year, the staff are people they know or at least know where they are from.
The vibe is entirely different.

[Falco Knotwise]

Would you be okay with your children being taken from you and shipped thousands of miles away in order to receive Catholic education?

I thought somebody might ask that.

It's very easy to create a narrative around words that sound far more hideous than the reality. In a way we were all "forced" to go to school because there were compulsory education laws when we were kids, right?

See, we can all claim we were "forced" to go to school because we weren't allowed to just stay home and not go to school, too! See how easy this is?

All the religious institutions who participated in residential schools — whether Catholic, Mennonite, whatever — were participating in accordance with the rules of a government program. Yes, the children were "forced" to go to the schools because by 1910 most of the Providences introduced compulsory school laws and boarding schools was the format chosen by the government. They were sent home for the summer.

Were they being taught English as a second language to help enculturate them with the wider society? Yes.

Were they forbidden to use their own language? Nonsense!

In fact, the missionaries had to study and learn those languages in order to write many books for them! Yes, in the schools, mostly English was used.

Were they also teaching them Catholic or Mennonite doctrines? Yes, but they were teaching them more than that as well. There are plenty of testimonies about what a good education they received if anyone is interested in looking into those, instead of just repeating bigoted meta-narratives.

Then there are tales of kidnappings of children to take them off to the schools. I wonder who was doing the kidnapping? Was it the priests and nuns, or other religious teachers, who left their comfortable homes in the U.S. to go to the frozen tundras of Canada just so they could abuse poor children? (There are documentaries showing how many missionaries lived among the indigenous people in their own igloos. They had to earn a living by hunting and fishing with the rest of the community. All while trying to set up hospitals for them and giving them a magnificent education!)

Were the kidnappers perhaps really colonial government agents dressed in black, perhaps sent by the Queen herself?

By the way, "cultural genocide" is a neomarxist platitude being bandied around a lot lately.

Also, I do believe in separation of Church and State, just not as radically as today's secularists would have it. I like the current U.S. Supreme Court doctrine of accommodationism and its willingness to deny the states the right to discriminate against religious schools when it comes to issuing state vouchers, for example.

And I'm opposed to the Court's elimination of optional religious courses from public schools based on a radical doctrine of separation of Church and State — founded as it is on the (imo) irrational Myth of Religious Violence.

[MaxPC]

Which was entirely conducted by government bureaucrats doing what they claimed was in the “best interests of the child”.

Every group does bad things at some point. The healthy response is to take responsibility, apologize, make restitution if possible and try to do better in the future. Deflection and blame shifting is not healthy.

Szdfan, stick to the original topic that no mass graves were found instead of trying to distract with generalised statements. The Catholic Church is NOT guilty of the alleged mass graves as those graves do not exist. The original article said no mass graves were found and that the narrative you appear to continue to be clinging to was fictitious. Read the original post with an open mind to the fact that this narrative was fabricated in a dishonest effort to smear Catholics and to extract restitution money for something that never happened.

[Falco Knotwise]

i couldn’t agree more. Reflect history in perspective, and give credit where credit is due.
Perpetual victimhood mentality is destructive.
Unfortunately, now that it’s rewarded via gov policy, will it ever (be allowed to) end?

Jesus loved victims.
He didn’t tell them to dedicate their lives to it. Conversely, He empowered them (not through gov incentives.)

I agree. Good point, as usual temp!

Jesus identified with the victims against the oppressors/mobs clamoring for death.

So today the mobs claim the status of victimhood for themselves and call those whom they victimize the oppressors.

It's really an exact inversion of the gospel paradigm.

[NedFlanders]

Every group does bad things at some point. The healthy response is to take responsibility, apologize, make restitution if possible and try to do better in the future. Deflection and blame shifting is not healthy.

Amen to this on its own - you’re absolutely right. But since none of us abused children in residential schools you’re out of context in trying to put shame and guilt on us. It shouldn’t surprise you that you get lots of push back since you are tarnishing an extremely valuable principle by your encouragement of forced misapplication upon others.

[Falco Knotwise]

Recognizing core clashes between Catholics-EO-Protestants-Anabaptists, it’s well to be aware that Christianity is under attack, i’ll refer to something a formerly active MD member, MrJim, once posted, to paraphrase:
“Catholics are the primary target, but, all Christians should be aware, if+when they take down Catholicism, the rest will quickly fall.”

That was shocking news to me. Years later, it holds water.
As a protestant with Anabaptist interests, a Christian, it got my attention. i had essentially been raised to ignore+reject Catholicism, without specifics (which i don’t believe is unusual in any faith).

This is what I've been trying to grapple with lately: the limited horizon of the sectarian worldview according to which "we the separated ones are the only true church — the rest of the world isn't our problem, even if it all goes to hell in a handbag."

Meanwhile, as the Catholic Church is being accused of committing "cultural genocide" for carrying out the Great Commission (as they understand that, to publicly "teach the nations") and then "scientists" who teach the same thing about "cultural genocide" suddenly find evidence for real mass graves all over the country where there is none . . .

and nobody sees a connection here between false beliefs (the religion and violence myth) and consequences, especially when coupled with neomarxist jargon like "cultural genocide?"

Even in the midst of burning churches and riots toppling statues that represent the current world order (they toppled Queen Elizabeth because they found out she visited the residential schools three times) . . .

and still nobody can see or hear the train coming right at them?

(Also, I agree with you — if the Catholic Church goes down, the "separated brethren" will likely be going right along with them.)

[temporal1]

Recognizing core clashes between Catholics-EO-Protestants-Anabaptists, it’s well to be aware that Christianity is under attack, i’ll refer to something a formerly active MD member, MrJim, once posted, to paraphrase:
“Catholics are the primary target, but, all Christians should be aware, if+when they take down Catholicism, the rest will quickly fall.”

That was shocking news to me. Years later, it holds water.
As a protestant with Anabaptist interests, a Christian, it got my attention. i had essentially been raised to ignore+reject Catholicism, without specifics (which i don’t believe is unusual in any faith).

This is what I've been trying to grapple with lately:
the limited horizon of the sectarian worldview according to which "we the separated ones are the only true church —
the rest of the world isn't our problem, even if it all goes to hell in a handbag."

Meanwhile, as the Catholic Church is being accused of committing "cultural genocide" for carrying out the Great Commission (as they understand that, to publicly "teach the nations") and then "scientists" who teach the same thing about "cultural genocide" suddenly find evidence for real mass graves all over the country where there is none . . .

and nobody sees a connection here between false beliefs (the religion and violence myth) and consequences, especially when coupled with neomarxist jargon like "cultural genocide?"

Even in the midst of burning churches and riots toppling statues that represent the current world order (they toppled Queen Elizabeth because they found out she visited the residential schools three times) . . .

and still nobody can see or hear the train coming right at them?

(Also, I agree with you [MrJim] —
if the Catholic Church goes down, the "separated brethren" will likely be going right along with them.)

NYT sound bites are so much easier to recite.

i’m not in your league of understanding, insights, leaning, wisdom, evenso, i appreciate what you bring to this forum, there are others present who know better what you describe.

Your efforts are not a lost cause.

Isaiah 55:11
https://biblehub.com/isaiah/55-11.htm

10For just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout,
and providing seed to sow and food to eat,

11so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please,
and it will prosper where I send it.

12You will indeed go out with joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.…

God’s will be done.