Poll: Is it religious persecution... ???

[steve-in-kville]

I think of religious persecution as depriving someone of something, or hurting them in some way, because of their beliefs.

In this thread, I'm thinking about depriving someone (within the realm of Christian orthodoxy and orthopraxy) of things they should be able to experience.

I agree somewhat with this. I believe there is such a thing as religious & spiritual abuse, which may border on persecution at times. Its hard for me to explain without giving a few real life examples....

[Josh]

Ernie,

It may be prudent for you to go and examine churches that have the same view of communion you do. (A great deal of them do, including Episcopalians, MC USA, and so on.)

[AndersonD]

Ernie,

It may be prudent for you to go and examine churches that have the same view of communion you do. (A great deal of them do, including Episcopalians, MC USA, and so on.)

Curious Ernie, have you read the Martyrs Mirror?

Also would your group, Followers of Jesus, commune w Followers of the Way? Just observing your group they seem to have some commonalities with Finney's group or even John Martin's church or the Bruderhof. I think it would be a good fit to commune with them versus Brethren or OO groups. I personally have entertained the thought myself but have decided I wouldn't feel comfortable communing with groups who aren't Mennonite and are very fluid. I like John's church until I get to the millennials. We don't have anything in common anymore. Where there is no vision, the people perish.

[Heirbyadoption]

What Bible basis do you have for believing that a faithful believer has a right to share in communion and full fellowship with every other faithful believer?

The admonition regarding about one faith, one Lord, one baptism and Jesus prayer that Christians would all be one seems to indicate this. It seems to me that the Apostles and others would have had full fellowship, communion, holy kiss with Christians wherever they went. I know I can't prove this in every case, due to silence, but it did happen at least some of the time.

Ernie, the 2nd Century reference from Justin Martyr about Christians extending the Salutation as they entered other congregations to identify themselves as a brother/sister would seem to support this concept as well, would it not?

[Ernie]

What I learn from this is that communion should not be practiced indiscriminately, and we should know well who it is that we are communing with.
There of course is the debate by scholars over the last two millennium as to whether Judas was part of the communion service. I wish I could prove that he was not... but in the case of silence, and in light of other teachings in the NT regarding communion, I think it is good for the church to have boundaries for communion.

Ernie,
It may be prudent for you to go and examine churches that have the same view of communion you do. (A great deal of them do, including Episcopalians, MC USA, and so on.)

I think you missed reading my last post and my first on. Episcopalians and MC USA folks do not have the same view of communion that I do in the slightest. Most would consider me a fundamentalist, a bigot, etc.

[Ernie]

Ernie,

It may be prudent for you to go and examine churches that have the same view of communion you do. (A great deal of them do, including Episcopalians, MC USA, and so on.)

Curious Ernie, have you read the Martyrs Mirror?

Also would your group, Followers of Jesus, commune w Followers of the Way? Just observing your group they seem to have some commonalities with Finney's group or even John Martin's church or the Bruderhof. I think it would be a good fit to commune with them versus Brethren or OO groups. I personally have entertained the thought myself but have decided I wouldn't feel comfortable communing with groups who aren't Mennonite and are very fluid. I like John's church until I get to the millennials. We don't have anything in common anymore. Where there is no vision, the people perish.

I've read considerably from the Martyrs Mirror. I think I would be comfortable communing with all the people that the Swiss Brethren would have been comfortable communing with.

Yes, our church, Followers of Jesus, communes with any "kingdom Christians" who desire to commune with us. (according to the criteria in the OP) Some congregations at FOTW have not been in communion the last while and we do not commune with such folks.
We do interview anybody who wants to commune with us. FOTW has not done this in the past.
And yes, I am not comfortable communing with the millennials that you reference.

I am curious who all you commune with and whether there are any people in the churches you commune with who do not fit the criteria in the OP.

[Ernie]

What Bible basis do you have for believing that a faithful believer has a right to share in communion and full fellowship with every other faithful believer?

The admonition regarding about one faith, one Lord, one baptism and Jesus prayer that Christians would all be one seems to indicate this. It seems to me that the Apostles and others would have had full fellowship, communion, holy kiss with Christians wherever they went. I know I can't prove this in every case, due to silence, but it did happen at least some of the time.

Ernie, the 2nd Century reference from Justin Martyr about Christians extending the Salutation as they entered other congregations to identify themselves as a brother/sister would seem to support this concept as well, would it not?

Yes, this would support that concept. I assume it was universal but can't prove it.

[AndersonD]

Ernie,

It may be prudent for you to go and examine churches that have the same view of communion you do. (A great deal of them do, including Episcopalians, MC USA, and so on.)

Curious Ernie, have you read the Martyrs Mirror?

Also would your group, Followers of Jesus, commune w Followers of the Way? Just observing your group they seem to have some commonalities with Finney's group or even John Martin's church or the Bruderhof. I think it would be a good fit to commune with them versus Brethren or OO groups. I personally have entertained the thought myself but have decided I wouldn't feel comfortable communing with groups who aren't Mennonite and are very fluid. I like John's church until I get to the millennials. We don't have anything in common anymore. Where there is no vision, the people perish.

I've read considerably from the Martyrs Mirror. I think I would be comfortable communing with all the people that the Swiss Brethren would have been comfortable communing with.

Yes, our church, Followers of Jesus, communes with any "kingdom Christians" who desire to commune with us. (according to the criteria in the OP) Some congregations at FOTW have not been in communion the last while and we do not commune with such folks.
We do interview anybody who wants to commune with us. FOTW has not done this in the past.
And yes, I am not comfortable communing with the millennials that you reference.

I am curious who all you commune with and whether there are any people in the churches you commune with who do not fit the criteria in the OP.

I only commune with those who are part of the group I am a member with but personally wouldn't have a problem "opening" communion to others in the faith. However, that's not how my brethren think and so it's only something I can dream about. We do extend the hand of fellowship to other Mennos excluding those who require rebaptism.

I respect all groups and only choke on groups that require rebaptism.

[steve-in-kville]

I am curious who all you commune with and whether there are any people in the churches you commune with who do not fit the criteria in the OP.

Our Lovefeast/communion services are not closed but not entirely open, either. Since the pull away from the COB, some changes had to be made. It used to be as long as one was in good standing with thier home congregation, you were welcome to participate. Not what the criteria is now, post split and post pandemic.

[Josh]

What I learn from this is that communion should not be practiced indiscriminately, and we should know well who it is that we are communing with.
There of course is the debate by scholars over the last two millennium as to whether Judas was part of the communion service. I wish I could prove that he was not... but in the case of silence, and in light of other teachings in the NT regarding communion, I think it is good for the church to have boundaries for communion.

Ernie,
It may be prudent for you to go and examine churches that have the same view of communion you do. (A great deal of them do, including Episcopalians, MC USA, and so on.)

I think you missed reading my last post and my first on. Episcopalians and MC USA folks do not have the same view of communion that I do in the slightest. Most would consider me a fundamentalist, a bigot, etc.

Yet they have an open communion policy, so it is prudent to see the fruit that comes from people and groups who think communion needs to be open with no examination and no right to question anything.