What if there are not enough sword-bearers?

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
GaryK

Re: What if there are not enough sword-bearers?

Post by GaryK »

joshuabgood wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:22 pm
Until society gets back to that design, I'm doubtful things are going to evolve into a better society.
When would you say society had the design that you would idealize them getting back to?
Whenever it was common for most children to have both undivorced parents in the home and whenever it was a shame to have sex outside of marriage and whenever church was a very important entity in communities.
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RZehr

Re: What if there are not enough sword-bearers?

Post by RZehr »

GaryK wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 7:05 pm
joshuabgood wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:22 pm
Until society gets back to that design, I'm doubtful things are going to evolve into a better society.
When would you say society had the design that you would idealize them getting back to?
Whenever it was common for most children to have both undivorced parents in the home and whenever it was a shame to have sex outside of marriage and whenever church was a very important entity in communities.
:clap:
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Neto

Re: What if there are not enough sword-bearers?

Post by Neto »

Chaos will ensue. Much as we have now, only worse. Read the stories of the time in the former Russian Empire after its collapse, as evil men sought to control all around them. Like that. Where is the next "refuge"? Maybe there isn't one, not a political one. We will be left with the only One we have ever really had.
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Ken
Posts: 21863
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: What if there are not enough sword-bearers?

Post by Ken »

GaryK wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 7:05 pm
joshuabgood wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:22 pm
Until society gets back to that design, I'm doubtful things are going to evolve into a better society.
When would you say society had the design that you would idealize them getting back to?
Whenever it was common for most children to have both undivorced parents in the home and whenever it was a shame to have sex outside of marriage and whenever church was a very important entity in communities.
Here are the marriage and divorce stats for the United States going back to the Civil War.

Can you point to moment in time that you are talking about?

Image

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... one-chart/
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
GaryK

Re: What if there are not enough sword-bearers?

Post by GaryK »

Ken wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:49 pm
GaryK wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 7:05 pm
joshuabgood wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:22 pm

When would you say society had the design that you would idealize them getting back to?
Whenever it was common for most children to have both undivorced parents in the home and whenever it was a shame to have sex outside of marriage and whenever church was a very important entity in communities.
Here are the marriage and divorce stats for the United States going back to the Civil War.

Can you point to moment in time that you are talking about?

Image

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... one-chart/
My statement was not about divorce and remarriage per se, but about both parents raising children.
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Ken
Posts: 21863
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: What if there are not enough sword-bearers?

Post by Ken »

GaryK wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:21 pm
Ken wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:49 pm
GaryK wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 7:05 pm

Whenever it was common for most children to have both undivorced parents in the home and whenever it was a shame to have sex outside of marriage and whenever church was a very important entity in communities.
Here are the marriage and divorce stats for the United States going back to the Civil War.

Can you point to moment in time that you are talking about?

Image

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... one-chart/
My statement was not about divorce and remarriage per se, but about both parents raising children.
Either way, what point in time were you talking about?

Understand also that in the 19th Century a low divorce rate didn't necessarily mean families stayed together. It was FAR more common for one spouse to just up and leave back then with no formal legal process of divorce. Since we were a far less legalized society.

My point is that human nature is human nature and I don't think people have changed as much as you think they have. We never actually lived in a Norman Rockwell world. That was always fiction.
Last edited by Ken on Wed May 10, 2023 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
GaryK

Re: What if there are not enough sword-bearers?

Post by GaryK »

Ken wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:25 pm
GaryK wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:21 pm
Ken wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:49 pm

Here are the marriage and divorce stats for the United States going back to the Civil War.

Can you point to moment in time that you are talking about?

Image

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... one-chart/
My statement was not about divorce and remarriage per se, but about both parents raising children.
Either way, what point in time were you talking about?

Understand also that in the 19th Century a low divorce rate didn't necessarily mean families stayed together. It was FAR more common for one spouse to just up and leave back then with no formal legal process of divorce. Since we were a far less legalized society.
I don't have any point in time in mind. That's why I used the word whenever.
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Ken
Posts: 21863
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: What if there are not enough sword-bearers?

Post by Ken »

GaryK wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:28 pmI don't have any point in time in mind. That's why I used the word whenever.
My point is that human nature is human nature and I don't think people have changed as much as you think they have. We never actually lived in a Norman Rockwell world. That was always fiction.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
GaryK

Re: What if there are not enough sword-bearers?

Post by GaryK »

Ken wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:32 pm
GaryK wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:28 pmI don't have any point in time in mind. That's why I used the word whenever.
My point is that human nature is human nature and I don't think people have changed as much as you think they have. We never actually lived in a Norman Rockwell world. That was always fiction.
If you took from what I said that I believe society was at one point Norman Rockwell-ish, I really don't know what else to say. But I will say that I have been around long enough (58 years) to have observed changes in societies that are not good, IMO.
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Soloist

Re: What if there are not enough sword-bearers?

Post by Soloist »

It would be far more useful to post a graph of divorce rates and one of marriage rates. When marriage rates where high and divorce rates were low is perhaps a benchmark.
Less people get married today and simply live together for a few years and either get married or move on.
Separated from the two makes the data useless for establishing divorce rates being less in the past or less now. Otherwise, why isn’t less marriage the reason for less divorce? Seems logical
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