10 years ago there were only about 3 EVs on the market. Tesla, Nissan Leaf, and Chevy Bolt. Today there are over 50. Tesla was clearly superior when the competition was only the Nissan Leaf and Bolt. Today not so much. And the future? We are in a world market, not a US market for automobiles. Countries like China and India and the EU are going to drive EV markets as much or more than the US.
One of Tesla's biggest problems is their dealer and service network. The traditional car companies have dealerships and service centers everywhere. Tesla can't compete with that, no matter how good their cars are. I'm not buying one if I have to drive 2 hours to get service done.
I have heard rumblings that more manufacturers may go to the ‘straight to customer’ method without the dealership middleman.
That isn’t a problem if they are more universally serviceable. It is more of a problem if you have to go back to the manufacturer for any sort of complex repair or service and there isn’t a widespread dealer network to do the work.
Today there are independent auto repair shops on nearly every street corner. If you need a brake job or front end job or even something complicated done on a IC vehicle like a head gasket repair you have dozens of choices in every city. That isn’t currently the case with EVs but possibly could be if the government insists that the industry move in that direction as it should. It is illegal for regular auto companies to invalidate warranties for having work done by independent shops. The same thing should apply to EVs as well.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Sliceitup wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 4:48 pm
I have heard rumblings that more manufacturers may go to the ‘straight to customer’ method without the dealership middleman.
Indeed. The rest of the auto industry is salivating at a chance to get with moving to Tesla’s model (outrageously expensive service you can only get done at company owned stores).
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 5:15 pm
That isn’t a problem if they are more universally serviceable. It is more of a problem if you have to go back to the manufacturer for any sort of complex repair or service and there isn’t a widespread dealer network to do the work.
Today there are independent auto repair shops on nearly every street corner. If you need a brake job or front end job or even something complicated done on a IC vehicle like a head gasket repair you have dozens of choices in every city. That isn’t currently the case with EVs but possibly could be if the government insists that the industry move in that direction as it should. It is illegal for regular auto companies to invalidate warranties for having work done by independent shops. The same thing should apply to EVs as well.
You can’t even get tyres changed for a Tesla without going to a dealer. A Tesla cannot go on a standard lift; it requires a special adapter which only Tesla makes to avoid having the lift touch the battery packs and possibly crush them, which could start a fire. The cost of getting one of these special lifts is cost prohibitive for most tyre shops. Same is true of an alignment.
Tesla will only install tyres they sell and they charge MSRP for tyres, no discounts. Most shops are a lot cheaper.
On the flip side, Teslas need very little service. Basically all that ever needs done is tyre changes and related wheel balancing & alignment. Brakes need changed rarely - about as often as tyres. Everything else is a gigantic replaceable part which costs a significant fraction of the car.
The rest of the auto industry would LOVE to move to this model.
Robert wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:37 am
If some of the new battery technology comes on line in 2023, I can easily see a upswing since it will drop battery price by almost half and the battery life is much longer. NASA and Tesla have both revealed new battery tech this past week that may really be the turning point in electric cars.
I really like the idea of standardizing batteries so that you can drive into a "gas station", pay some money, swap out your depleted battery for a new one, and get back on the road. That would be instant.
But proposed standards for charging EVs would go a long way:
Charging stations have to be able to work for most EVs for them to be practical.
Alternatively, we could start making 300 mile extension cords. Or 75 foot jumper cables with drones that can latch them onto the gas-powered car ahead of you. Or ...
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 5:55 pm
Alternatively, we could start making 300 mile extension cords. Or 75 foot jumper cables with drones that can latch them onto the gas-powered car ahead of you. Or ...
Robert wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:37 am
If some of the new battery technology comes on line in 2023, I can easily see a upswing since it will drop battery price by almost half and the battery life is much longer. NASA and Tesla have both revealed new battery tech this past week that may really be the turning point in electric cars.
I really like the idea of standardizing batteries so that you can drive into a "gas station", pay some money, swap out your depleted battery for a new one, and get back on the road. That would be instant.
But proposed standards for charging EVs would go a long way:
Charging stations have to be able to work for most EVs for them to be practical.
Alternatively, we could start making 300 mile extension cords. Or 75 foot jumper cables with drones that can latch them onto the gas-powered car ahead of you. Or ...
The industry is going the opposite direction because most the innovation is in battery technology.
Laptops and phones aren’t replaceable anymore either.
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 5:55 pm
Alternatively, we could start making 300 mile extension cords. Or 75 foot jumper cables with drones that can latch them onto the gas-powered car ahead of you. Or ...
They are miles ahead of you Boot
You don't need 300 mile extension cords. You could theoretically power cars with overhead wires like electric buses that are in use in hilly western cities like Seattle and San Francisco.
Which is sort of a ridiculous idea for cars, but might actually make sense for electric self-driving trucks on highly-traveled mainline routes between major cities. It also makes sense for mainline freight and passengers train service since those are all electrical-powered anyway. All diesel locomotives actually use electric motors to drive the wheels. The diesel part is simply a big generator that provides electric power to the electric motors on each drive wheel.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
RZehr wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:50 pm
I want to see all power lines buried in the asphalt, and have continuous wireless charging for cars as they drive on the road.
So you would zap yourself every time you walk across the road?
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:16 pm
SpaceX is privately held so it's shares don't get bought and sold. And no, you can't write off one company's losses on another company. To make that happen Twitter would have to merge with Tesla or something like that. And Musk can't write off Twitter losses on his own personal taxes either.
Of course, it's not like he paid any personal taxes on the appreciation of value of his shares of Twitter.
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:16 pm
Otherwise people would just acquire money-losing companies as personal tax write-offs (tax shelters) which I think used to be legal long ago but isn't any more.
This sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? Acquire a money-losing company and lose $100,000 per year so that you can save $30,000 on your taxes that year. Is it something in the water that makes people do things like that?
