Gender confusion

[Josh]

I don't support the pronoun change, but in this system of speaking one uses the "cis-" prefix to indicate one is identifying with the gender they were assigned at birth. (What a convoluted speech is needed!)

We really can't force other people to use the words we use. When I use the word "man" or "woman", it means precisely what some people want me to call a "cis-gender-man" or "cis-gender-woman". But I would never describe myself that way. That's not my worldview at all. In my worldview, there are men, there are women, there are some people who choose to live as someone of the opposite gender. So I use words that express my worldview.

So if someone explains to me, with exasperation, that I am a "cis-gender-man" and I need to understand that means that my birth gender matches my gender ... I can't change the way they speak to express their worldview. I use words that express mine. They will probably be able to change the dictionaries, our culture really does seem to be changing in that direction.

But shouting more loudly at them, insulting them more forcefully, that won't do anything to explain our worldview. And if they associate our worldview with hostility, with insults, with toxicity, it's going to make our worldview harder for them to accept.

Of course. But sometimes I also speak to someone who regularly uses blasphemy, racial slurs, and obscene language to express himself where none of that impure speech is needed. I don’t go out of my way to correct them, but I don’t think it’s “hostility” to speak amongst ourselves on a forum about this. (For the record, when faced with a transsexual, which has been something I’ve been around for 25 years or so, I generally use their preferred pronouns - although lately this has become a lot more difficult once people started just making pronouns up, or regularly changing their preferred pronouns.)

The change in the dictionary however is quite 1984esque. The common everyday meaning of “woman” has not changed.

[Josh]

The operative words are: By force of the sword.

Wait. Isn't part of your complaint that the state isn't using the sword to enforce your view of gender and sexuality, but is instead protecting and affirming identities you don't agree with? Don't you want the state to enforce your view -- to enforce the belief that the only legitimate sexuality is heterosexual marriage? Aren't you seeking the state to force your views on other people's most intimate relationships and identities?

Most of us would just like to be left alone and not have the state force on us its definition of who is “married” and force us to, for example, provide creative writing services to homosexual weddings.

Aren't anti-sodomy laws or bans against contraception also the force of the sword?

Aren’t laws against murder also the force of the sword?

To me it doesn't sound like you're against the force of the sword; you want the force of the sword to benefit you.

Right and wrong are found in the Bible and the Bible is the only basis of right, wrong, good and evil. There can be no other source or authority for just law.

[Bootstrap]

... but I don’t think it’s “hostility” to speak amongst ourselves on a forum about this.

Hostility is not about the subject. Sometimes people speak in a way that is hostile and toxic when we speak among ourselves in this forum.

Gender confusion is bad. Hostility is bad. Let's not promote either.

[Bootstrap]

I'm curious how often in regular, everyday conversations have you had conversations where you use nomenclature like "cis-gender." I've hardly ever had conversations like that -- when they've happened, it's been in specific contexts and with specific people.

Oh, I have a recurrent conversation with two people I know well. They want to explain to me what gender is, and that it's not just male and female. They explain the difference between gender identity and the identity assigned to them at birth, as though I hadn't heard this, including from them.

I ask what they mean by "assigned to them", ask if you can't just look at the body or test the chromosomes and tell, ask who they think assigns a gender. I ask if this isn't something actually rooted in the body and in biology. And I ask, if this isn't what determines gender, what is?

They then tell me about gender identity as though it were a scientific concept, and I ask how you can test for gender identity. I say that the old theory was that you weren't comfortable with your birth gender, you should learn to become comfortable with it. The new theory is that you need to find yoru gender identity, changing your body if need be. And I ask how you could tell which theory is right?

During the whole conversation, I keep hearing that I, as a cisgender male, need to work hard to understand these things. So it's not a useful conversation, and I try to avoid repeating it. But they also really want me to fully embrace and affirm their trans identities. It's not enough to say that I love them and care about them, they say I can't really do that without embracing their trans identity. I tell them I don't insist that they embrace my straight maleness, but that doesn't connect either.

So this is raw for me.

[Bootstrap]

Most of us would just like to be left alone and not have the state force on us its definition of who is “married” and force us to, for example, provide creative writing services to homosexual weddings.

That's a valid concern. I think the Supreme Court is trying to be helpful there.

But I think a lot of LGBTQ would also like to be left alone and live their lives in ways that you and I do not agree with. They aren't doing that to destroy us, they are doing that because that's how they want to live.

[temporal1]

Most of us would just like to be left alone and not have the state force on us its definition of who is “married” and force us to, for example, provide creative writing services to homosexual weddings.

That's a valid concern. I think the Supreme Court is trying to be helpful there.

But I think a lot of LGBTQ would also like to be left alone and live their lives in ways that you and I do not agree with.
They aren't doing that to destroy us, they are doing that because that's how they want to live.

^^you’re describing THE BEAST of the organized political bloc, not human, not humane, which EXPLOITS those it claims to represent, for self-serving power+riches. it’s now ‘way out of control. too many allowed it, supported it, voted for it. it’s evil.

identify the problem (THE LYING BEAST) and do away with it.

So this is raw for me.

^^it’s raw for everyone, that’s the price of SIN.
you’re not a victim, you’re an able-bodied, well educated, well employed grown man.

really, it is easy to fall into “victim-speak.”
Christians need to be specially alert to avoid it. Jesus empowers in all situations, even in literal slavery.
Avoid bad habits.

the victims are now everyone’s children who have NO TOOLS OR POWER to defend themselves against this evil.
almost as vulnerable as the unborn. very little difference, in my view.

Jesus specially loves+protects children.

[temporal1]

“victim-speak”

is now so pervasive throughout our culture - EVERYONE grabs at it, to insane degrees.
“Harry+Meghan” absurdly live in it; i have a family member, well-ed, well-employed, who burns through money like water, who drips in victim-speak, always with an eye to gain something from it, in any way possible.

i think it’s something to avoid.
people in history (and many today) - live with serious challenges, yet, through deep faith, gratitude, hope, they do NOT see themselves as victims, and would be deeply hurt for others to label them as such.

Jesus offers so much better.

[Bootstrap]

Most of us would just like to be left alone and not have the state force on us its definition of who is “married” and force us to, for example, provide creative writing services to homosexual weddings.

That's a valid concern. I think the Supreme Court is trying to be helpful there.

But I think a lot of LGBTQ would also like to be left alone and live their lives in ways that you and I do not agree with.
They aren't doing that to destroy us, they are doing that because that's how they want to live.

^^you’re describing THE BEAST of the organized political bloc, not human, not humane, which EXPLOITS those it claims to represent, for self-serving power+riches. it’s now ‘way out of control. too many allowed it, supported it, voted for it. it’s evil.

You don't believe people who are LGBTQ are human?

The world is, in fact, worldly, sinful, evil. And organized political blocs, across the political spectrum, often exploit those they claim to represent for fame, money, and power. But most American simply want to live their lives. Often sinfully. They often don't grasp Christianity at all. They often disagree with us strongly. That's not persecution. It does not make us victims.

And if we want a government that has room for our beliefs, it will probably have room for worldly beliefs too.

identify the problem (THE LYING BEAST) and do away with it.

What exactly do you mean by "do away with it"? What exactly do you propose?

As members of the Kingdomm of God, how do we relate to sinners in the world? I think that's the question here.

[RZehr]

But I think a lot of LGBTQ would also like to be left alone and live their lives in ways that you and I do not agree with. They aren't doing that to destroy us, they are doing that because that's how they want to live.

Baloney. I don’t believe it. That’s the 20 years ago line they were selling. It’s not their current message at all.

Edit: you say a “lot”. Maybe so. But if so, the few are the ones driving and controlling the national victim narrative and social conversation then.

[temporal1]

You don't believe people who are LGBTQ are human?

i’m not sure how i could have been more clear about this - over YEARS on MD and since, MN.
(i feel like) i’ve repeated ad nauseum, i’m sure of it, and i believe i’ve been consistent, no matter context. i’ve tried.

none of us can honestly complain. Jesus Christ, Himself, was misunderstood and rejected, and sacrificed, on earth.
keeping Him in mind, patience is required. Jesus represents the highest standard. i fall short.

for those sitting in the back: all humans are God’s creation.
all have sinned. Jesus offers salvation to all, “Follow me,” “go, and sin no more.”
Jesus embodied, “all lives matter.” “love the sinner, hate the sin.”

here’s the rub: Jesus did not advise organizing political blocs to petition Caesar for power+riches.
Political blocs are self-serving ENTITIES that exist to gain power+riches. Entities are not human or humane.

As we speak, this particular ENTITY is bulldozing over many of its claimed members (they claim ALL, ‘cause they can) -
by forcing trans people, now, forcing acceptance of trans-ing CHILDREN. Political entities are not human nor humane.

Political blocs/cults always begin with some attractive premise! - Of course they do! - It’s a starting requirement.
Eventually they just become self-serving entities, the mask is off. It can be hard to get out.

Baloney. I don’t believe it.
That’s the 20 years ago line they were selling. It’s not their current message at all.
Edit: you say a “lot”. Maybe so.
But if so, the few are the ones driving and controlling the national victim narrative and social conversation then.

i admire your clarity.

(i think) what you describe is how THE POLITICAL ENTITY has a not-human life of its own, no soul, no shame,
which harms those it noisily claims to represent. For me it’s deeply important to separate the human from the not-human entity.

i have no doubt you honor Jesus in every interaction you come upon. This is what Jesus wants of us.

Organized political blocs+cults are not of Jesus Christ. They are bad actors.