Amish farm under threat from U.S. federal govt for refusal to abandon traditional farming practices

[Sliceitup]

Miller has apparently fired a lawyer or two. He’s intentionally dragging this out as long as he can.

If this is true, he isn't the first one to do this...

It certainly sounds like he’s trying to drag it out.

https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2022/05/ ... -and-fsis/

After a court telephone conference this past week where Amos Miller agreed to comply with a court’s order, the judge then ordered him to make a “good faith” payments totaling $105,065.

Miller has responded with a blizzard of court filings, usually signing them as “Amos Miller, living man.” In one submission, he asks the court to dismiss his counsel of record, Steven Lafuente.

The court has refused to dismiss Lafuente from the case since Miller last year “fired” the Dallas attorney. Miller wants to replace him with a “sovereign citizens” group out of Washington State. This time, Miller’s dismissal request involved a claim that bar association membership voids citizenship.

That’s pretty bonkers.

This case has been bonkers for quite some time. In February they had a bonkers court hearing where Miller showed up 40 minutes late and then one of his witnesses basically threatened the judge. Another witness said it’s important that he be able to eat parasites from pigs intestines, but plead the fifth when asked if he gets this from Miller.

https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/ ... b1bf8.html

[Ken]

I find it hilariously funny to even think that an Amish farmer would need to drive his horse and buggy going "clip clop, clip clop" down the highway to engage in interstate commerce. It is not even plausible! His horse would wear out.

I looked at Google maps, and the distance from Bird in Hand PA to the nearest out of state city (Rising Sun MD), is 32 miles, down a busy Hwy. If Miller went the back roads in his buggy, it is even further. You need to prove that Miller actually travelled out of state before you can make your point.

From what I understand, you are trying to tell us that Miller is travelling 64 miles round trip to another State to sell his meat products. I suppose Miller's meat products are thrown in the back of his Amish carriage, maybe in a "Amish cooler" or something (how do the Amish make ice without electricity?) How much meat could Miller carry, and why bother, when you already have 4,000 customers coming to your door. I really cannot see Interstate Commerce as even a remote possibility.

Yes we are telling you that Miller is engaged in interstate commerce. Miller doesn't even try to hide the fact that he is engaged in interstate commerce. He is completely overt about it. First let's go to his own web site where we find that he is operating "food clubs" in 10 different states: https://www.millersorganicfarm.com/Food ... ep_72.html

He claims that these clubs are privately owned and operated. But lest you think these are somehow independent "clubs" that are unconnected to Miller's farm, let's take a look at the actual web sites that he has set up for some of his clubs:

His North Carolina food club states that they will be shipping food by truck (not horse and buggy) directly from his PA farm to his club in North Carolina. under his "club membership" link: https://www.ncfarmfreshfood.com/club-membership/ and if you scroll down to the bottom and click on the membership form you will find the word-for-word identical application as for his PA club with Amos Miller listed as the controlling executive of the club. In fact, it doesn't say anything about a North Carolina club. It is actually a contract for a membership in Miller's Organic Farm in Pennsylvania.

If we scroll over to his club in Los Angeles we find the same exact language. https://udderlyla.com/ All the links lead straight back to Miller and they don't even really pretend to be an independent club. They have the same exact contract for membership in Miller's Organic Farm in PA and the web site tells you that your payments go directly to Miller's Farm for processing and they tell you on the web site to contact the farm directly for any product, shipping, or business-related questions. Which suggests that the whole California "club" is just a front for Miller.
'
We find all the same things on his Miami club web site. https://www.myhealthyfoodclub.com/ All links lead directly back to Miller and his FAQ and shipping information tells us that all of his products are being shipped directly from his PA farm. The club membership form is also the same exact form, word for word, as all his other clubs complete with all the sovereign citizen nonsense and is actually a membership contract with Miller Organic Farms with Amos Miller listed as the controlling executive of the club.

Lots of businesses set up membership clubs for various reasons. I am a member of Costco which is operated as a membership club and I have to show my membership ID to enter the store and renew it every year. But no one pretends that my local Costco Club warehouse is somehow independent of Costco Corporation. Or that because I am a private club member and not a member of the public, that interstate commerce is not happening. Nor does Costco claim to be exempt from any state and federal food safety regulations or inspection requirements.

[Valerie]

Has anyone EVER become ill by purchasing from him?
Plenty have been harmed by Big Pharma products- and they continue selling same products knowing they harm people- there is a growing movement to not trust FDA, big pharma, hospitals, and of course our government. Amos Miller is doing a good thing made to look like the bad guy by the bad guys

[ohio jones]

Amos Miller is doing a good thing made to look like the bad guy by the bad guys

As far as I can tell, he is doing both good things (producing good quality food) and bad things (resisting the authorities). If he wouldn't be doing the bad things, it wouldn't be easy to make him look like a bad guy.

[Sliceitup]

Has anyone EVER become ill by purchasing from him?
Plenty have been harmed by Big Pharma products- and they continue selling same products knowing they harm people- there is a growing movement to not trust FDA, big pharma, hospitals, and of course our government. Amos Miller is doing a good thing made to look like the bad guy by the bad guys

Yes someone died from milk they bought from him.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Has anyone EVER become ill by purchasing from him?
Plenty have been harmed by Big Pharma products- and they continue selling same products knowing they harm people- there is a growing movement to not trust FDA, big pharma, hospitals, and of course our government. Amos Miller is doing a good thing made to look like the bad guy by the bad guys

If you don’t like food regulation go to India for a week. Or maybe Syria. Here, even though the majority of us are unvaccinated, almost no one gets typhoid, a few cases of Hepatitis A make the news. There these are very common occurrences. The big difference is we have an effective regulatory system, they do not. Is that the unregulated paradise you want?

[Szdfan]

Has anyone EVER become ill by purchasing from him?
Plenty have been harmed by Big Pharma products- and they continue selling same products knowing they harm people- there is a growing movement to not trust FDA, big pharma, hospitals, and of course our government. Amos Miller is doing a good thing made to look like the bad guy by the bad guys

There two two listeriosis cases in 2014 from tainted milk that were traced back to Miller's farm. One woman in Florida died from it -- Nett claims the woman's family says it wasn't listeria and the CDC just decided it was, but I don't know if what Nett says is true, What we do know is that the CDC definitely believes that Miller Farms was the source of the outbreak due to USDA genetic testing of the raw milk.

https://www.cdc.gov/listeria/outbreaks/ ... index.html

Although the two illnesses occurred in 2014, the source of these illnesses wasn’t known until January 29, 2016, when the U.S. Food and Drug Administration informed CDC that whole genome sequencing of Listeria bacteria from raw chocolate milk produced by Miller’s Organic Farm showed that it was closely related genetically to Listeria bacteria from the two ill people described above.

[Szdfan]

Nor should this forum’s google copy+paste champions be confused with interpretation of law, or legal counsel.
Or scriptural interpretation, or most anything else.

Neither should pulling nonsense out of your bodonkadonk.

i have no idea about your word, did you author it?
i agree with you when you sometimes describe how you (to paraphrase) prefer not to rely on internet opinions/advice, this forum is an opinion forum, no one’s certificate or diploma or career is hedging on it ..

my words were intended to be a reminder. that’s pretty much it. i don’t believe there are any members present who are practicing attorneys - actual attorneys are unlikely to weigh in with legal advice - without retainers.

“look! i found it on (biased) google,” is not legal counsel.

Considering that I don’t think anyone here believes that arguments here are legal advice, I don’t understand what your argument is.

Part of making a good argument is citing credible sources. Are you arguing that Miller has not attempted to fire his lawyer or bog down the court with filings?

[nett]

Has anyone EVER become ill by purchasing from him?
Plenty have been harmed by Big Pharma products- and they continue selling same products knowing they harm people- there is a growing movement to not trust FDA, big pharma, hospitals, and of course our government. Amos Miller is doing a good thing made to look like the bad guy by the bad guys

Yes someone died from milk they bought from him.

Apparently you didn't read the whole thread.

One of his customers died of stomach cancer in a hospital. The CDC decided two years later that this counted as a "listeria" outbreak because they found a "genetic similarity" between listeria found in the woman who died of cancer, and listeria they found in his raw chocolate milk. This woman's family maintains she never bought his chocolate milk.

Saying "someone died from the milk they bought from him" is repeating a lie.

[nett]

Has anyone EVER become ill by purchasing from him?
Plenty have been harmed by Big Pharma products- and they continue selling same products knowing they harm people- there is a growing movement to not trust FDA, big pharma, hospitals, and of course our government. Amos Miller is doing a good thing made to look like the bad guy by the bad guys

There two two listeriosis cases in 2014 from tainted milk that were traced back to Miller's farm. One woman in Florida died from it -- Nett claims the woman's family says it wasn't listeria and the CDC just decided it was, but I don't know if what Nett says is true, What we do know is that the CDC definitely believes that Miller Farms was the source of the outbreak due to USDA genetic testing of the raw milk.

https://www.cdc.gov/listeria/outbreaks/ ... index.html

Although the two illnesses occurred in 2014, the source of these illnesses wasn’t known until January 29, 2016, when the U.S. Food and Drug Administration informed CDC that whole genome sequencing of Listeria bacteria from raw chocolate milk produced by Miller’s Organic Farm showed that it was closely related genetically to Listeria bacteria from the two ill people described above.

Yes an outbreak of....2 people on opposite ends of the country. Should we get Fauci involved and lock down again?



The implicit trust that all you anti-miller posters have of anything hosted on a .gov site amuses me to no end.

The CDC also used to believe that COVID vaccines prevent transmission, do you remember that?