JohnHurt wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:52 am
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:34 pm
JohnHurt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:02 pm
Because of WWII, Congress created the Dept of Defense without changing the Constitution, and then created the other "3 letter" agencies at the Federal level, all of which violate the 10th Amendment. The 1968 Gun Control Act and 1968 Controlled Substances act - no one ever even thought they would have to pass these as amendment to the Constitution, as they did in the early part of the 20th century for Prohibition.
Although some of these laws are needed, when they are administered at the State level, the average person can object to the law through the State Legislature, or move to another State. At the Federal level, you have very little recourse.
Have you ever actually read the constitution? Executive departments are mentioned in article 2, section 2 and have been in existence since Washington’s administration. Defense department was a renaming of the War department. There is no need to amend the constitution to create, eliminate or rename departments. It simply can be done through an act of congress. The power to create these agencies derive from Article 1, section 8.
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
The fact that this farmer is involved in interstate commerce is almost a certainty. Courts have held if anything used there in came across state lines, it is interstate commerce. The case that held that involved a restaurant that claimed it was not involved in interstate commerce, and behold, the ketchup on his tables were from out of state. In the present world, it is unavoidable.
Sovereign Citizen arguments stem from an ignorance of how courts have historically decided these cases, and understood the Constitution. Presenting a novel argument seldom works. There is 200 years of history there, and these arguments simply ignore all of it.
Here is a list of the "enumerated powers" granted to Congress by the US Constitution:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enumerate ... ed_States)
You won't find USDA in this list at all. The only relevant enumerated power is this one:
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
That is, if Miller is selling his products across State lines, you could make an argument that the US-Duh has jurisdiction over Miller's farm by regulating interstate commerce - but only for the products Miller has sold across State lines.
But it does not make sense.
I find it hilariously funny to even think that an Amish farmer would need to drive his horse and buggy going "clip clop, clip clop" down the highway to engage in interstate commerce. It is not even plausible! His horse would wear out.
I looked at Google maps, and the distance from Bird in Hand PA to the nearest out of state city (Rising Sun MD), is 32 miles, down a busy Hwy. If Miller went the back roads in his buggy, it is even further. You need to prove that Miller actually travelled out of state before you can make your point.
From what I understand, you are trying to tell us that Miller is travelling 64 miles round trip to another State to sell his meat products. I suppose Miller's meat products are thrown in the back of his Amish carriage, maybe in a "Amish cooler" or something (how do the Amish make ice without electricity?) How much meat could Miller carry, and why bother, when you already have 4,000 customers coming to your door. I really cannot see Interstate Commerce as even a remote possibility.
The "Sovereign Citizen" argument is also a hoot. This is a convenient label the US-Duh, and other Federal agencies attach to anyone that stands up to them.
So how did Miller learn about the "Sovereign Citizen" movement? Did he learn about it on the internet? No, he does not have electricity, so no internet.
Maybe Miller has joined some sort of Militia? No, he is Amish and therefore does not engage in war or killing other people.
None of the arguments the US-Duh makes any sense in this case. They are obviously hassling an Amish farmer because he is successful. And if more people copy Miller and his techniques become widespread, it will hurt the bottom line of Big Agriculture.
That is the only reason for the $300,000 fine - to "send a message" to everyone else. No one is complaining except the US-Duh.
I have had several different types of jobs, one of which where I had to go to a few large slaughterhouses. The stench was incredible, just like the smell of a large feedlot - where the most inhumane methods of food production are used. That cannot be healthy. Mr. Miller has a much better solution.
