The real reason SBC lost members.

[barnhart]

Aweful. Just aweful. I'm a little taken back by the use of evangelical mission as a justification for sheltering abusers. I guess the thing you are proudest of is a great area of weakness.

Isn’t that the exact same thing we hear when we ask for accountability from CAM? “Think of all the good they do…”

Exactly.

[Grace]

Some very profound truths quoted from this thread. Something I have observed more times than I can count.

What is done in the dark will be brought to light...as the song says...God's gonna cut you down.

I'm a little taken back by the use of evangelical mission as a justification for sheltering abusers. I guess the thing you are proudest of is a great area of weakness.

[temporal1]

Some very profound truths quoted from this thread. Something I have observed more times than I can count.

What is done in the dark will be brought to light...as the song says...God's gonna cut you down.

I'm a little taken back by the use of evangelical mission as a justification for sheltering abusers.
I guess the thing you are proudest of is a great area of weakness.

yes.
i haven’t read any of the links, i’ve read no details. i’ve read too much over the years, esp since the 1990’s.

one part is how the patterns/MO/modus operandi of carnal sins/crimes are largely the same, regardless of circumstances, large scale or individual, church settings, secular groups, gov. (we) always hope there will be something special that will exempt church settings from sins (and crimes).

(i speculate) SIN is the culprate, SIN is the common denominator. SIN is not of Jesus Christ.
it baffles me how patterns of abuse are the same, no matter where abuse is found. and, those patterns that enable are remarkably efficient.

so, SIN occurs within earthly human constructs. the evil alien, not of Jesus Christ.

maybe someone else can find better words.

[Sudsy]

From the earliest churches (i.e. the church in Corinth) there are sins going on in the church that don't represent Christ likeness and have been ignored for various reasons. One of these I believe is the church or denominations 'reputation' as an organization wants to present themselves as the correct or pure followers of Christ. Pride in an organization. God hates pride. I don't think this should be much of a surprise and for Mennonites the John Howard Yoder sinning comes to mind. Pentecostals and Charismatics had Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Baker and the Catholic church had various priests. I doubt any Christian organization is free from trying to hide sexual sins that makes their group look bad. Sooner or later our sins will find us out.

As in this case, Ken's article also states it was a 'small, insular and influential group of leaders' that were doing what they could for their reasons to cover up sins. This seems to me to be fairly common by those who sit at the top of these organizations. Imo, nothing shockingly new as I expect it happens in all groups. Going to church doesn't make one a saint anymore than going to MacDonalds makes anyone a hamburger. Often leaders have pride issues regarding their church/organization and it is easy for any of us to be hypocrites in some way or another.

Reminds me not to put my faith in man or any church organization. Jesus alone is without sin. There never will be a sin free church in practise here on this earth but what Jesus has done has positionally made us into 'a glorious church without spot or wrinkle washed in the blood of the Lamb'. In and through Him we are His spotless Bride. How amazing such grace ! That should cause us to pursue holiness and obey the Spirit's guidance to individually address our own sins. Jesus said to do this first and then we will be able to 'cast the first stone' at others.

[Ken]

As in this case, Ken's article also states it was a 'small, insular and influential group of leaders' that were doing what they could for their reasons to cover up sins. This seems to me to be fairly common by those who sit at the top of these organizations. Imo, nothing shockingly new as I expect it happens in all groups. Going to church doesn't make one a saint anymore than going to MacDonalds makes anyone a hamburger. Often leaders have pride issues regarding their church/organization and it is easy for any of us to be hypocrites in some way or another.

To be clear. It was NOT a small number of SBC ministers, youth pasters, etc. who were involved in sexual abuse. There were a very large number of reported abuses and assaults over the years.

It was a small group of SBC leaders at the top who formed a conspiracy to cover it all up and try to shelter the church from responsibility.

[Sudsy]

As in this case, Ken's article also states it was a 'small, insular and influential group of leaders' that were doing what they could for their reasons to cover up sins. This seems to me to be fairly common by those who sit at the top of these organizations. Imo, nothing shockingly new as I expect it happens in all groups. Going to church doesn't make one a saint anymore than going to MacDonalds makes anyone a hamburger. Often leaders have pride issues regarding their church/organization and it is easy for any of us to be hypocrites in some way or another.

To be clear. It was NOT a small number of SBC ministers, youth pasters, etc. who were involved in sexual abuse. There were a very large number of reported abuses and assaults over the years.

It was a small group of SBC leaders at the top who formed a conspiracy to cover it all up and try to shelter the church from responsibility.

My guess is that is likely quite common and the larger the church organization the more will be involved. If we knew the sexual abuse that goes on as a percentage of a total organizations membership, that might give a different perspective on whether some Christian group is sinning more or less in this area than another, imo.

[nett]

With all due respect, clergy sexual abuse is more damaging to the church and to Jesus than woke pastors.

Exegete that one for me please. The NT spends a lot more time on false teachers and how dangerous they are than sexual abuse.

Woke preachers now have the distinction of pushing things like the trans agenda, which is a much more heinous sin than sexual molestation. People's bodies are irrevocably destroyed, and they are tricked into thinking it will make them happy.

[joshuabgood]

With all due respect, clergy sexual abuse is more damaging to the church and to Jesus than woke pastors.

Exegete that one for me please...

No...I don't think I will.

[Sudsy]

With all due respect, clergy sexual abuse is more damaging to the church and to Jesus than woke pastors.

Exegete that one for me please...

No...I don't think I will.

Isn't free will great ?

[Ken]

With all due respect, clergy sexual abuse is more damaging to the church and to Jesus than woke pastors.

Exegete that one for me please. The NT spends a lot more time on false teachers and how dangerous they are than sexual abuse.

Woke preachers now have the distinction of pushing things like the trans agenda, which is a much more heinous sin than sexual molestation. People's bodies are irrevocably destroyed, and they are tricked into thinking it will make them happy.

I don’t even know what a “woke” pastor is in this context. Far as I can tell, all it really means is someone slightly more liberal than the person using the term.

But the “woke panic” in this country is something to behold if you think that liberal pastors are a greater threat than the absolute epidemic of clergy sexual abuse in this denomination and others.