Liberation Theology

[temporal1]

Twitter is full of pictures and videos of weaponry headed for Ukraine via Poland. I just noticed a prominent Ukrainian account begging for people not to post these images, to keep the Russians from knowing what is headed their way. It sounds like some severe battles are coming

and it gives me a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach.

i found this helpful from Voddie Bauchman.
At about 9min., he refers to “Liberation Theology” (which has many strong adherents).

“Putin Doesn't Know What's Coming” | Voddie Baucham / 15min.


He references different scriptural accounts, i’m surprised he did not include Jesus in the NT, crying out to His Father.
Matthew 27:46 / Mark 15:34 / Luke 23:46 (and more)
https://biblehub.com/matthew/27-46.htm

45From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land.

46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
which means, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

47When some of those standing there heard this, they said, “He is calling Elijah.”…

[temporal1]

The amount of propaganda that gets repeated in this thread is absurd.
We almost need a "Glorious Russia defends against Ukrainian hordes 2022" thread to counterbalance it.

Or maybe we could just make a new forum subsection called "Pravda".

Voddie Baucham refers to LIBERATION THEOLOGY (video, Page 152).
Honestly, maybe Liberation Theology is what’s behind a lot of the thinking on this topic, and on this forum??

Even when i was very young, i recall hearing bits about how the U.S. “likes the underdog” in every scenario.
i just had not connected a theology, or even political ideology, in that way.

i’m going to be thinking more about it.

Liberation Theology
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/essa ... -theology/

DEFINITION
The theology of liberation is a combination of Marxist philosophy with certain biblical motifs.
It argues that we should reconstruct the whole of Christian theology by seeing it through the “axis of the oppressor and the oppressed.” ..

it continues ..

[temporal1]

Does Liberation Theology cause communication problems between Christian believers?
Does the definition inadvertantly trip up well-meaning believers, causing them to conflate (secular government) with
“certain biblical motifs?” - (the preferred words being: God’s Truth.)

DEFINITION
The theology of liberation is a combination of Marxist philosophy with certain biblical motifs.
It argues that we should reconstruct the whole of Christian theology by seeing it through the “axis of the oppressor and the oppressed.” ..

Could Liberation Theology be at the root of so much unrest, even on this forum of members with so much in common?

Voddie Baucham doesn’t say much in the short OP video. He says enough to make me wonder.

[Neto]

When I was in missionary training, in a college course I took in (I think) the school year 75-76, Liberation Theology was presented as a good development, because it seemed to recognize the need to "allow" non-Westerners to take part in the task of bringing the Gospel to the peoples of the world, shaping the presentation of the truth of the Scriptures in ways that would resonate with the intended audiences. But the true core beliefs of Liberation Theology were masked by the "Biblical language" they used to express Marxists ideas. For instance, "Sin" meant "social injustice". "Salvation" then means "freedom from social injustice". I do not in any way mean to imply that social injustice is not sin, but it becomes a completely different "gospel", a sort of "social gospel" with a violent twist. But all of this only came out after it was seen how the theory of LT was actually applied. If you would read the early documents describing LT, most readers would not pick up on the actual intent. (My college prof didn't, and he had a doctorate in missiology.)

[temporal1]

When I was in missionary training, in a college course I took in (I think) the school year 75-76, Liberation Theology was presented as a good development, because it seemed to recognize the need to "allow" non-Westerners to take part in the task of bringing the Gospel to the peoples of the world, shaping the presentation of the truth of the Scriptures in ways that would resonate with the intended audiences.

But the true core beliefs of Liberation Theology were masked by the "Biblical language" they used to express Marxists ideas.
For instance, "Sin" meant "social injustice". "Salvation" then means "freedom from social injustice".

I do not in any way mean to imply that social injustice is not sin, but it becomes a completely different "gospel", a sort of "social gospel" with a violent twist.

But all of this only came out after it was seen how the theory of LT was actually applied.
If you would read the early documents describing LT, most readers would not pick up on the actual intent.
(My college prof didn't, and he had a doctorate in missiology.)

Thank you, Neto. That’s really helpful.

It’s not that i never heard the words, “Liberation Theology” before, it’s that this is the first i really THOUGHT about them.
In this context, Ukraine, along with the oddly contentious forum thread, viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4584
VB made me wonder, “what is this?”

Human reasoning seems to have no bounds when it comes to potential distortions of Truth.
We can make everything so much harder than it was ever meant to be. With the best intentions.

By His Grace, He allows us to return to Him, over+over again.

[JimFoxvog]

The liberation theology that I've encountered is more scripture-centered than Marxist-centered. The Gospel Coalition definition is not one that most liberation theologians would agree with, I expect. You'll find a more balanced discussion on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

[Neto]

The liberation theology that I've encountered is more scripture-centered than Marxist-centered. The Gospel Coalition definition is not one that most liberation theologians would agree with, I expect. You'll find a more balanced discussion on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

I cannot get on to wikipedia - some sort of security deal.
Anyway, admittedly I have not followed recent developments in LT, or read anything written in the last 25 years or so, and then only the original proponents in Latin America. Also, most of what I said above is from personal experience in how the ideas of LT were applied in Brazil, and also from others who encountered it much more than we did, in their work in other parts of South America, especially in Peru, relating to the Shining Path, as I recall. So it could well be that some have taken some of the ideas and used them in profitable ways, but I would still maintain that the intents of the original movement were tied up in Marxism and especially the ideas of class struggle. (I don't think I am contradicting what I said previously, that it at first seemed like a good thing based on the actual writing, because it was the original proponents who put it into practice, and it was then that their real ideas became clear. But I have also not followed those authors, so it is possible that they themselves refocused the movement. I do not know. But regardless, the original ideas were being used in various parts of South America during our time there in Brazil, so I will at least insist on saying that caution should be observed. That is something we should always do, regardless of the origin of the ideas being considered.)

[Ken]

Setting aside the actual theology for the moment, my perception is that Liberation Theology was more or less a movement of younger progressive priests within the Catholic clergy, mostly within Latin America. And it was a reaction or fight against the older and more aristocratic conservative Catholic hierarchy at that time.

In the 1950s the Catholic hierarchy in Latin America was drawn largely from the wealthy conservative aristocratic class and the church weighed in very heavily on the side of conservative politics often in name of anti-communism. So you had examples like the Catholic hierarchy in Guatemala essentially being an active partner in the 1954 Coup that overthrew the democratically-elected government of Jacobo Árbenz and replaced it with a series of brutal military dictators that remained in place until the mid-1980s. The CIA gets the blame for that Coup, but the Catholic Church in Guatemala was perhaps an even bigger participant. And the church's primary reason for weighing in or condoning military dictatorships was anti-communism, same as with the CIA.

Liberation Theology was more or less younger progressive priests pushing back against the conservative politics of the Latin American church at that time which was often aligned with military dictatorships, or at best, simply looked the other way. But it was also mostly a product of that time. Since the 1980s, most of the religious energy in Latin America has shifted away from the Catholic church and towards the evangelical movement, especially home-grown Pentecostal movements. And Catholicism, whether liberal or conservative, is becoming increasingly less relevant. As far as I can tell, Liberation theology in Latin America hasn't really been a meaningful movement since the 1980s

[Neto]

Setting aside the actual theology for the moment, my perception is that Liberation Theology was more or less a movement of younger progressive priests within the Catholic clergy, mostly within Latin America. And it was a reaction or fight against the older and more aristocratic conservative Catholic hierarchy at that time.

In the 1950s the Catholic hierarchy in Latin America was drawn largely from the wealthy conservative aristocratic class and the church weighed in very heavily on the side of conservative politics often in name of anti-communism. So you had examples like the Catholic hierarchy in Guatemala essentially being an active partner in the 1954 Coup that overthrew the democratically-elected government of Jacobo Árbenz and replaced it with a series of brutal military dictators that remained in place until the mid-1980s. The CIA gets the blame for that Coup, but the Catholic Church in Guatemala was perhaps an even bigger participant. And the church's primary reason for weighing in or condoning military dictatorships was anti-communism, same as with the CIA.

Liberation Theology was more or less younger progressive priests pushing back against the conservative politics of the Latin American church at that time which was often aligned with military dictatorships, or at best, simply looked the other way. But it was also mostly a product of that time. Since the 1980s, most of the religious energy in Latin America has shifted away from the Catholic church and towards the evangelical movement, especially home-grown Pentecostal movements. And Catholicism, whether liberal or conservative, is becoming increasingly less relevant. As far as I can tell, Liberation theology in Latin America hasn't really been a meaningful movement since the 1980s

Thank you for those insights into how LT has developed in the Spanish-speaking parts of South America. We first encountered the Brazilian form of it in the middle late 80's, as we moved to our allocation in the state of Amazonas, and became involved in the tribal work among the Banawa (in the Medio-Purus River basin area). In the Brazilian environment, it had melded into one "side" of the Catholic church, as the indigenous "mission agency" CIMI. So there, it was not "against" the Catholic church per se, but my perspective would be that it does oppose the main mission efforts of the Brazilian Catholic church, which is much more conservative. [The main CIMI representative with whom we related was a German Catholic priest, but his expressed "mission" was to "right the wrongs of the Catholic church", which he further defined as restoring native religions. Others of our (Bible translation) coworkers worked closely with local Catholic missionaries who supported native language Bible translation, to great advantage. So in that sense CIMI and the Brazilian Catholic church were in opposition to one another, but it is also somehow a recognized arm of the Catholic church. (That's the best I can do to understand or explain it, as I do not have the benefit of a Catholic insider's perspective or knowledge.) Other CIMI members were also members of the Brazilian Indian Agency (FUNAI), especially in the section that dealt with "protecting" isolated Indian tribes from outside influence (Frente de Contato), especially that of Christian missionaries.]

[Ken]

Setting aside the actual theology for the moment, my perception is that Liberation Theology was more or less a movement of younger progressive priests within the Catholic clergy, mostly within Latin America. And it was a reaction or fight against the older and more aristocratic conservative Catholic hierarchy at that time.

In the 1950s the Catholic hierarchy in Latin America was drawn largely from the wealthy conservative aristocratic class and the church weighed in very heavily on the side of conservative politics often in name of anti-communism. So you had examples like the Catholic hierarchy in Guatemala essentially being an active partner in the 1954 Coup that overthrew the democratically-elected government of Jacobo Árbenz and replaced it with a series of brutal military dictators that remained in place until the mid-1980s. The CIA gets the blame for that Coup, but the Catholic Church in Guatemala was perhaps an even bigger participant. And the church's primary reason for weighing in or condoning military dictatorships was anti-communism, same as with the CIA.

Liberation Theology was more or less younger progressive priests pushing back against the conservative politics of the Latin American church at that time which was often aligned with military dictatorships, or at best, simply looked the other way. But it was also mostly a product of that time. Since the 1980s, most of the religious energy in Latin America has shifted away from the Catholic church and towards the evangelical movement, especially home-grown Pentecostal movements. And Catholicism, whether liberal or conservative, is becoming increasingly less relevant. As far as I can tell, Liberation theology in Latin America hasn't really been a meaningful movement since the 1980s

Thank you for those insights into how LT has developed in the Spanish-speaking parts of South America. We first encountered the Brazilian form of it in the middle late 80's, as we moved to our allocation in the state of Amazonas, and became involved in the tribal work among the Banawa (in the Medio-Purus River basin area). In the Brazilian environment, it had melded into one "side" of the Catholic church, as the indigenous "mission agency" CIMI. So there, it was not "against" the Catholic church per se, but my perspective would be that it does oppose the main mission efforts of the Brazilian Catholic church, which is much more conservative. [The main CIMI representative with whom we related was a German Catholic priest, but his expressed "mission" was to "right the wrongs of the Catholic church", which he further defined as restoring native religions. Others of our (Bible translation) coworkers worked closely with local Catholic missionaries who supported native language Bible translation, to great advantage. So in that sense CIMI and the Brazilian Catholic church were in opposition to one another, but it is also somehow a recognized arm of the Catholic church. (That's the best I can do to understand or explain it, as I do not have the benefit of a Catholic insider's perspective or knowledge.) Other CIMI members were also members of the Brazilian Indian Agency (FUNAI), especially in the section that dealt with "protecting" isolated Indian tribes from outside influence (Frente de Contato), especially that of Christian missionaries.]

I think Brazil (or at least the Amazon region) is somewhat unique in that you have, at least until recently, fairly un-reached areas and populations.

Guatemala (where I worked and maintain ties) also has large indigenous populations. Ethnically, the country is majority Maya. But the Mayan population has been under Catholic colonial rule for basically 500 years. So every town larger than the smallest rural hamlet has a town square with the church on one side, the municipal government building on one side, and usually a military armory on the third side representing the three branches of power in Spanish colonial Americas. The Catholic church has been part of the ruling hierarchy since the Spanish conquest in 1524. So younger liberal priests who questioned that arrangement were, of course, extremely threatening to the status quo and conservative oligarchy.

I tend to see the liberation theology movement of the 1970s as one in which the politics came first and the theology was constructed later to justify it rather than the other way around if that makes sense. It wasn't Marxist, but quickly became painted that way by opponents who were threatened by the idea of the church working with poor campesinos and trying to build a more just society. And so it was brutally repressed. This is just Guatemala alone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassina ... _Guatemala