Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[RZehr]

To sum up mainstream western orthodoxy on the matter, as parroted by most here.

• We do not want war.
• The opposite party alone is guilty of war.
• The enemy is inherently evil and resembles the devil.
• We defend a noble cause, not our own interests.(Just war theory)
• The enemy commits atrocities on purpose; our mishaps are involuntary.
• The enemy uses forbidden weapons.
• We suffer small losses, those of the enemy are enormous.
• Recognized artists and intellectuals back our cause.
• Our cause is sacred.
• All who doubt our propaganda are traitors.

These are pretty much exactly the talking points that Russia is saying about their “special military operation”.

[temporal1]

To sum up mainstream western orthodoxy on the matter, as parroted by most here.

• We do not want war.
• The opposite party alone is guilty of war.
• The enemy is inherently evil and resembles the devil.
• We defend a noble cause, not our own interests.(Just war theory)
• The enemy commits atrocities on purpose; our mishaps are involuntary.
• The enemy uses forbidden weapons.
• We suffer small losses, those of the enemy are enormous.
• Recognized artists and intellectuals back our cause.
• Our cause is sacred.
• All who doubt our propaganda are traitors.

These are pretty much exactly the talking points that Russia is saying about their “special military operation”.

i believe you are correct.
Jesus was “so smart” when He simply offered, “Follow Me.”

i pray Zelensky personally finds Jesus, i see no other way out for him in his miserable position. How used he must feel.

[Bootstrap]

To sum up mainstream western orthodoxy on the matter, as parroted by most here.

• We do not want war.
• The opposite party alone is guilty of war.
• The enemy is inherently evil and resembles the devil.
• We defend a noble cause, not our own interests.(Just war theory)
• The enemy commits atrocities on purpose; our mishaps are involuntary.
• The enemy uses forbidden weapons.
• We suffer small losses, those of the enemy are enormous.
• Recognized artists and intellectuals back our cause.
• Our cause is sacred.
• All who doubt our propaganda are traitors.

Nope.

My position is simple: military invasions and carpet bombing are bad, and doing so in order to decide, unilaterally, how your neighboring country is allowed to govern itself is also bad.

If the United States invaded Ukraine and started doing the same things Russia is now doing, you better believe I would be horrified. Actually, when I read some Russian Telegram channels, it sounds almost like that's what's happening right now. But it's not.

[temporal1]

There are more ways of invading/appropriating/extorting than violence.
Violence is just the oldest, most primitive form.

[Szdfan]

To sum up mainstream western orthodoxy on the matter, as parroted by most here.

• We do not want war.
• The opposite party alone is guilty of war.
• The enemy is inherently evil and resembles the devil.
• We defend a noble cause, not our own interests.(Just war theory)
• The enemy commits atrocities on purpose; our mishaps are involuntary.
• The enemy uses forbidden weapons.
• We suffer small losses, those of the enemy are enormous.
• Recognized artists and intellectuals back our cause.
• Our cause is sacred.
• All who doubt our propaganda are traitors.

I think one of my issues with your arguments is the assumption that since the US and the West are liars and hypocrites, this justifies or absolves Russia of its military actions. That's not necessarily true. Both the US and Russia can be bad, but they may not be bad at the same time or in the same way. To me, you seem to be arguing many of the same things for Russia that you identify as mainstream western orthodoxy.

I recall you stating at one point that you were concerned about non-resistance types becoming or saying pro-War anti-Russian things that are inconsistent with non-resistence. For me, the non-resistance argument is getting lost in your defense of Russian aggression.

[temporal1]

“Zelensky says he’s ‘ready for negotiations’ with Putin, warns of WWIII if they fail”
Ukrainian leader says ‘without negotiations, we cannot end this war,’ while stressing the heavy cost to human life as UN reports 10 million displaced Ukrainians since war started
https://www.timesofisrael.com/zelensky- ... they-fail/

.. Zelensky last week indicated that Russia’s demands were becoming “more realistic.”
Addressing his nation last Wednesday, he said that “efforts are still needed, patience is needed,” but noted that “any war ends with an agreement.”

.. prayers for negotiations ..

[nett]

I think one of my issues with your arguments is the assumption that since the US and the West are liars and hypocrites, this justifies or absolves Russia of its military actions. That's not necessarily true. Both the US and Russia can be bad, but they may not be bad at the same time or in the same way. To me, you seem to be arguing many of the same things for Russia that you identify as mainstream western orthodoxy.

I recall you stating at one point that you were concerned about non-resistance types becoming or saying pro-War anti-Russian things that are inconsistent with non-resistence. For me, the non-resistance argument is getting lost in your defense of Russian aggression.

I'm not defending Russian aggression, and if this thread weren't so active, I probably wouldn't have posted anything.

If anything, I'm defending that going to war is a natural function of a nation. It's sad to me that physical death and destruction gets so much more emotional attention on this forum than spiritual death and destruction. I take Matthew 10:28 literally, I hope everyone else does.

I am interested to see what will come of Russia being cut off from all of the western degeneracy. If that continues, it might be fertile ground for the gospel.

I think nations going to war is preferable to nations turning to Sodom, I see the west as Sodom right now. Sodom is always condemned in scripture, nations going to war is not.

I would prefer to be killed in a violent war than suffer spiritual demise in the west. Maybe most people don't feel that way, I don't know.

[nett]

Nope.

My position is simple: military invasions and carpet bombing are bad, and doing so in order to decide, unilaterally, how your neighboring country is allowed to govern itself is also bad.

If the United States invaded Ukraine and started doing the same things Russia is now doing, you better believe I would be horrified. Actually, when I read some Russian Telegram channels, it sounds almost like that's what's happening right now. But it's not.

I just don't share you morality about sovereignty of nations. A nation is as sovereign as their military is strong. That's how the world works.

If you could point to me to any scripture to defend your stance, I would like to understand it, and maybe change my stance.

But if you're just supporting mainstream liberal (classical) ideology, then I don't respect your position at all. Liberalism is a dead-end.

[Ernie]

And now we published an article on Ukraine's perspective of the invasion.

https://www.plainnews.org/wp-content/up ... ective.pdf

[Neto]

To sum up mainstream western orthodoxy on the matter, as parroted by most here.

These are pretty much exactly the talking points that Russia is saying about their “special military operation”.

i believe you are correct.
Jesus was “so smart” when He simply offered, “Follow Me.”

i pray Zelensky personally finds Jesus, i see no other way out for him in his miserable position. How used he must feel.

I hope that you have not given up on Putin. As long as there is breath, there is hope for repentance and salvation. (I think that we should pray for all people, for salvation. When I was in In HS the worst known national leader was Idi Amin. I had it written in large letters on one of my notebooks: "Jesus loves Idi Amin." And he also loves both Putin and Zelensky, and waits for them to repent of all unrighteousness. He would gladly take them in, and give them new hearts.)