Christians killing each other

[Soloist]

And you think that gives Russia the right to take over Ukraine? You seem to be implying that. War is pure evil and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I am angrier at the aggressor than at the victim. I can find no realistic telling of this that makes Ukraine the aggressor.

I think you just want to argue.

Show me where I have said Ukraine is the aggressor? I specifically was stating that all countries are morally depraved and we shouldn't align with them.

On the other hand, a country that inflicts this evil on another bears no particular moral responsibility, no more than the country it invaded? That makes no sense to me.

I never said this. You are twisting my words or at least misunderstanding me.

To me, that makes it blindingly obvious that invading a small country with the biggest political force since World War II is a really terrible thing. Not a "what about this other atrocity" thing.

The post that got you convinced that I'm a Russian lover was calling out propaganda and pointing out how identifying with one side or another blinds us to the propaganda and how very few people will see that any war there is a great deal of lies on both sides trying to paint the other side as evil. You have already decided on the evil side. Granted, they invaded and that is horrible, but are the Russians any more evil then the Ukrainians? of course not. The leaders are playing with the lives of the troops. This is how it has been since wars begin.

If you want to make assumptions about my position and not seek to heed my warning, so be it. I have no desire to continue with you on this line of discussion. You will continue to misunderstand me as has happened in almost any thread you and I have argued on.

Once again, I do not support Russia.

[Bootstrap]

Blaming Ukraine for this war is like blaming a woman for who got raped because she fought back. The rapist really does bear more responsibility than the victim.

No, its not. Completely different. This is geopolitics and its a messy thing. Russia does not want a NATO member right on their border.

And if Russia had not been threatening Ukraine for decades with one of the largest military forces on earth, Ukraine would not have asked for NATO membership. Which they have not been granted, FWIW, precisely because NATO members wanted to avoid provoking Russia.

The Russian response, while evil, is a tactical move designed to neutralize NATO on the border. The current war proves that.

You keep saying you aren't justifying Russia's actions. But some of the things you say really do seem to be justifying Russia's actions. This is one of them.

There's a kind of moral relativism that says that nobody in a conflict is ever more evil than anyone else in a conflict. All parties in a war are equally guilty because they are in a war, aggressor and victim alike. That's a lot like saying rape is bad and if two people are involved in a rape, they are equally guilty. I don't buy it.

[Soloist]

The Russian response, while evil, is a tactical move designed to neutralize NATO on the border. The current war proves that.

You keep saying you aren't justifying Russia's actions. But some of the things you say really do seem to be justifying Russia's actions. This is one of them.

Yup if this was a game of Civilization I would do the same thing to neutralize an enemy at my door. Totally justifies Russia's move from a purely secular tactical approach. That being said, timing is everything. I would want to develop tanks before invading with my archers.

[ohio jones]

I don't approve if Neto decides to send weapons to Ukraine or Russia.

I don't either, but I'm pretty sure he's not interested in doing that. Besides, to paraphrase Stalin, how many divisions does he have anyway?

[Soloist]

I don't approve if Neto decides to send weapons to Ukraine or Russia.

I don't either, but I'm pretty sure he's not interested in doing that. Besides, to paraphrase Stalin, how many divisions does he have anyway?

I'd suggest you ask him yourself


This "typo" was actually intentional for humor sake as it seemed a little heated.

[Bootstrap]

A thread in the General Theology forum turning into political judgments and a discussion of which side is worse...

From a KOG perspective, mixing Christianity in with the affairs of the kingdoms of the world is not the Christianity of our King, the Lord Jesus.

Good point. We need a thread where we can simply agree that Christians should not be killing each other or anyone else. I think we may also need a thread for grieving and praying and asking what God would want us, as members of the KOG, to do.

[temporal1]

Soloist:
Yup if this was a game of Civilization I would do the same thing to neutralize an enemy at my door.
Totally justifies Russia's move from a purely secular tactical approach.

That being said, timing is everything. I would want to develop tanks before invading with my archers.

i suppose COs would not generally make good military strategists. (Altho they aren’t deaf, dumb, blind, and scriptures warn to be both wise and vigilant, while remaining faithful.) Some COs are former military, naturally, they will have added insights from training+experience. These insights can be useful for added understanding of scriptures, military strategy is not ignored in scriptures.

i would be among the worst possible military strategists, i’ve never believed i would last a day in the military.
But i recognize all this exists, and it’s a huge part of what life on earth is about - over all time in human history, all continents - long before Jesus the Christ lived on earth.

Without using physical weapons of war, spiritual warfare employs various military strategies. Again, i’m not “fluent,” i’m not good at it, but i recognize it exists. i know the basics of chess, i’m not a good player.

God has layers of strategies that eventually, and inevitably, lead to Jesus the Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:57
https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-57.htm

56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

58Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast and immovable.
Always excel in the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.…

God is the ultimate strategist.
We still have to make our way on earth, in every earthly thing.
Some have more clarity along the way. Not denial, not escapism, but unfailing faith on the journey.

On a practical note, COs, by definition, must be wise+vigilant as well as faithful. If not, in a violent fallen world ..
things could be much worse. Over time, many various earthly strategies have sheltered and protected.

1 Corinthians 1:25
https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/1-25.htm

24but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.

26Brothers, consider the time of your calling:
Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were powerful; not many were of noble birth.…

In God’s eyes, all lives matter. Miraculously, this includes the weak, imperfect, of low birth, like me. And, without benefit of knowing you IRL, you.

[GaryK]

A thread in the General Theology forum turning into political judgments and a discussion of which side is worse...

From a KOG perspective, mixing Christianity in with the affairs of the kingdoms of the world is not the Christianity of our King, the Lord Jesus.

Good point. We need a thread where we can simply agree that Christians should not be killing each other or anyone else. I think we may also need a thread for grieving and praying and asking what God would want us, as members of the KOG, to do.

As this thread has proven, it's next to impossible to discuss the actual affairs of the kingdoms of the world from a KOG perspective other than a concise statement like JBG wrote in the OP.

[barnhart]

I will sign on to JBG's statement.

[Neto]

I don't approve if Neto decides to send weapons to Ukraine or Russia.

No need to worry about that..... (All I have is one only rifle that is over 100 years old, and in very sad shape, just a keepsake, as it was my grandpa's. And a number of blowguns, but no poison on any of the darts.)

My people put complete trust in the Czar, believing that he was God's chosen earthly sovereign who would provide shelter during the end times, and, in "Mother Russia" as well. But both failed to live up to those expectations, and then especially after the formation of the Soviet Union, under which the Mennonites suffered right along with the Ukrainians under Stalin's efforts to permanently remove the people of Ukraine in order to make room for the "Russification" of the entire Union of Soviet States. (Replacing all minority languages and cultures.)