Female students assaulted by transgender students in bathroom

[Ken]

Fine, if you don't like the word "assigned" how about the word "determined" Is it accurate to say that you believe that a person's gender and sexuality are DETERMINED by God at the moment of conception? Or maybe the word "selected?" I don't want to get into a semantic argument about the word "assigned". I'm just asking if it is your belief that both gender and sexuality are something that is determined by God at the moment of conception?

What's wrong with the words and concepts I used? If you want to understand what I am saying, can you try responding to the sentences I used, using the same words and concepts?

All this language about "assigned" and "determined" and what moment ... is just gobbledygook to me. Was your nose "assigned" to you by God at the moment of conception? Or "selected"? It's much simpler and clearer to say that you have a body, your body is good, and that's the body you live in. Who you are is not distinct from the body you live in. This is the root of how I see it.

If you think you have an identity that is not compatible with your body, the problem really might be your thinking.

And part of that is treating others how they wish to be treated. It is a pretty simple and universal concept and not at all limited to LGBT people, or a courtesy to which they should be excluded. I would teach my children to be kind and respectful to everyone they encounter whether it is Amish or Muslim kids in funny clothes and with funny accents, Black, Hispanic, or Asian kids who might not look, dress, or talk like them, Disabled kids who may need special attention or act out in strange and uncomfortable ways, Kids who hold other strange beliefs like Mormons [we have a LOT of Mormons around here] and yes, LGBT kids as well.

I agree that we should treat people with kindness and respect. But I don't think that means we have to agree with them or act like we do. I doubt that your school has classes that talk about whether Mormonism is right or wrong or whether Islam is right or wrong. I doubt that anyone is asked to talk as though they agree with Islam or Christianity. But I bet your sex ed classes teach all this gobbledygook about "assigned" and "selected" and how trans is the right way to think of this. Trans has been given a privileged status in many schools.

Fine, your actual words were: I teach my children to listen to their bodies and learn from their bodies. and Who you are is not distinct from the body you live in.

But neither of those are remotely Christian concepts. This thread is actually about sexual assault and there are many thousands of sexual assaults that happen in schools or to school children across the country because boys and girls (or adults close to them) chose to "listen to their bodies" instead of to their minds. Much of Christianity is actually about denial of biological urges. And with respect to your second point. Christianity very much teaches that who you are is distinct from the body you live in.

As for what our local schools teach? Here is the actual official policy in a one-page summary. Feel free to tell me which aspects you disagree with: http://www.camas.wednet.edu/about-csd/c ... ti-racism/

[Bootstrap]

Fine, your actual words were: I teach my children to listen to their bodies and learn from their bodies. and Who you are is not distinct from the body you live in.

But neither of those are remotely Christian concepts.

I disagree.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Incidentally, this is the only time that God says "very good". And there were only two items on the menu here.

And in the next chapter:

But for Adam no suitable helper was found. So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

So I would say that our identity as male or female is rooted in creation, as described in Genesis.

This thread is actually about sexual assault and there are many thousands of sexual assaults that happen in schools or to school children across the country because boys and girls (or adults close to them) chose to "listen to their bodies" instead of to their minds. Much of Christianity is actually about denial of biological urges. And with respect to your second point. Christianity very much teaches that who you are is distinct from the body you live in.

If you are saying that we are called to be human beings, more than just animals who instinctively act on their urges, I agree. But the Bible is very much an embodied book, much more embodied than some modern American Christians find comfortable. Yes, there is an everlasting life after our earthly bodies are laid down, but even then, the Bible tells us that there are spiritual bodies that we do not yet understand.

I'm not saying "listen to your body instead of your mind". I'm saying "listen to your body with your mind". And in this life, I really doubt that Christianity says that you are distinct from the body you live in. That's some kind of Gnosticism, not Christianity.

As for what our local schools teach? Here is the actual official policy in a one-page summary. Feel free to tell me which aspects you disagree with: http://www.camas.wednet.edu/about-csd/c ... ti-racism/

Is your sex-ed curriculum also online?

[Ken]

Is your sex-ed curriculum also online?

They follow the state's curriculum standards and approved curriculum resources the same as with every other subject. You can find them online here: https://www.k12.wa.us/student-success/r ... -education and here: https://www.k12.wa.us/student-success/r ... ementation

[JimFoxvog]

...
That is the genius of the US Constitution. We have the freedom to move...

Nowhere in the Constitution does it actually guarantee the freedom to move.
...

It does indeed provide that freedom to move. It’s called life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
...

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is a phrase from the Declaration of Independence, which has no legal standing in US law.

I also can't think of where the US Constitution guarantees freedom to move, but am open to correction if someone can point me to court cases.

[Josh]

So, according to your #2 rule, which bathroom should this transgender person use?

https://olympics.com/en/news/transgende ... sional-win

I think part of the subtext here is that transgender people don't really exist.

The mental illness of believing you aren’t the sex you actually are definitely does exist. But there’s no reason the rest of us need to cooperate in their delusions.

[Ken]

So, according to your #2 rule, which bathroom should this transgender person use?

https://olympics.com/en/news/transgende ... sional-win

I think part of the subtext here is that transgender people don't really exist.

The mental illness of believing you aren’t the sex you actually are definitely does exist. But there’s no reason the rest of us need to cooperate in their delusions.

You didn't answer my question. Which bathroom should F to M transgender people like the above person use?

[Falco Underhill]

Freedom of Movement Under United States Law --

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom ... 0his%20own.

[MaxPC]

It does indeed provide that freedom to move. It’s called life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. As for your assertion re protection, conservatives are also protected ... except in those places where destruction is raging in the streets. In those places, I advocate moving. Ken, don’t try to twist words to provide a rationale for homosexuals: as Ragpicker notes, that is not an honest way to discuss matters. You are quite adamant about homosexual rights even when they tread on the equally protected rights of Biblical beliefs: are you yourself homosexual?

People are not free to move for any number of hundreds of reasons. They may have family obligations. They may have custody agreements and children in local schools. They may have have professional reasons. A lot of state professional licensing requirements are not easily transferrable between states. I have family who are dairy farmers. Moving your dairy farm from Oregon to say....Wyoming is not so simple.

So yes, I disagree with you that the best option is to simply pick up and move if your neighbors are hostile. We live in a diverse country that respects and guarantees minority rights. Whether you are a racial or ethnic minority, a religious minority, a political minority, or a minority based on your sexuality.

And no, I'm not gay. I'm married and have three kids. Does believing in equal rights for LGBT people make me gay? I also believe in civil rights for African-Americans. Does that make me Black? And I believe in religious freedom for religious minorities. Does that make me a Muslim? Sheesh.

Anabaptists are actually a minority in pretty much every single part of this country except perhaps Holmes County OH and Mifflin County PA. Should Anabaptists from across the country move to those locations so they can be in the majority? Or should maybe their rights be protected and respected wherever they live? I'm simply applying that principal to ALL Americans, not just with whom I happen to agree or approve of.

People are free to move anytime, anyplace. It is a matter if they choose to not move. It is a choice. Anabaptists have a history of relocation: Mennonites, Amish, Hutterites, Brethren: all came from Europe to escape persecution. I do not agree with your premise that people are not free to move because people have done so and continue to do so. It is all about personal choices. This man SZDFAN speaks of is clearly miserable. He can and should move to find a better environment for him. To expect an entire community to change its value system to accommodate one person is both unrealistic and untenable. Rebellion will result.

There is no perfect system of government because they are all human driven. I have lived in a nation where socialism reigned and infringed upon both individual and community rights. It is far less effective than capitalism. It is only marginally better than communism. Top down infringement on the character of individual communities creates a socialistic serfdom, not freedom. There are millions of communities in the world. Pick one and move if you are terribly unhappy to the point of considering suicide. It is indeed that simple: personal choices.

[MaxPC]

Nowhere in the Constitution does it actually guarantee the freedom to move.
...

It does indeed provide that freedom to move. It’s called life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
...

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is a phrase from the Declaration of Independence, which has no legal standing in US law.

I also can't think of where the US Constitution guarantees freedom to move, but am open to correction if someone can point me to court cases.

Thank you, Jim; I quoted that portion of the Declaration to emphasise the basis for the Constitution. I was tired and did not complete my thought. The Constitution begins as follows:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The Constitution (much to the chagrin of the pro-socialists) also limits the powers of government: a wise provision in my opinion.

[Bootstrap]

Everybody has the right to move. Nobody has the right to tell people that they have to move if they don't agree with their opinions. There's no way Americans will ever move into communities of 100% pure opinion. We have to learn to live with each other.

One of the uglier sides of these school board meetings: people telling parents or teachers that they know where they live, making threats to those they disagree with, getting in their faces. In the OP, the police were monitoring the situation for a reason. I wish that were not necessary.