Righteous Anger & Covid 19

[Valerie]

Valerie please continue to use your speak-to-text. It generates great typos.

Glad you enjoy them. Again I wish we could edit after we have a chance to go back and reread them! I presently do not have a computer and have a phone that whether I use my fingers or my voice, typos happen

[Wayne in Maine]

I do believe there is reason to be righteously angry at how many segments of the government have responded to this pandemic. But this pandemic is real. Pseudo-science will not resurrect the people who did not have to dies of this disease if people had behaved responsibly and not bought into Satan's lies (Yes, I said it - this is nothing but witchcraft and worldly, satanic lies!)

Of course it won't, but pseudoscience now exists on all sides, including in the schizophrenic advice for the public (February? Go to Chinatown and eat out. Don't wear a mask. June? Stop eating out, it's dangerous! You must wear a mask. May? Well, you can stop wearing a mask IF you get this experimental vaccine first.)

It's not schizophrenic, it's "science" (with which you are conflating politics). In January 2020 we knew very, very little about this disease including whether masking (with the limited supply of masks available) would help stop the spread. We did not know what therapies might work or who was actually susceptible and who might need to be put on ventilators. We hardly knew about non-symptomatic Covid and how the disease might spread from people showing no symptoms to susceptible people who will die from the disease. It's not as if there was some "inspired text" delivered along with the disease with particulars about how it spreads and how it's treated. Scientists (and policy makers) have had to learn quickly and as they learned they have changed their approach.

the response of the assembled "ethnic Anabaptists" and their conspiracy-minded associates. Instead of consideration for their neighbors, known and unknown, who were vulnerable to this diseases they only cared about themselves and their "freedom".

Actually lots of us present were not "ethnic Anabaptists" (although I suppose I should be flattered for being mistaken for such, as at one time I
probably wished to be).

Ah, that's why I included "conspiracy-minded associates" - I could have used a stronger term.

Unknown to them, a lot of Mennonites have contributed to these deaths, like their labors did in in factories producing war materials contributed to the deaths of German and Japanese soldiers and civilians on the second great war.

I think comparing attendance at AIC to building arms is utterly absurd.

It's the same selfish and short sighted attitude. I thought you might see that.

[Valerie]

The powers that be in our culture has been successful at fooling people by using the label conspiracy theory. Indeed there are conspiracy theories. But the powers that be in today's culture have conveniently demonized critical thinking by labeling it conspiracy theory..

Keep believing those who are not successful because they will cast off by way of assuming conspiracy theory when an actuality there is reason to listen to those who actually know what they're talking about.

Some of us happen to believe a different type of doctor and they are successful. I had two customers who are nurses mother and daughter. Since our store is big on giving out the vaccines because there are is a lot of money to be made in this, the mother nurse customer told me she is not getting the "shot". Her daughter who was visiting for Easter, is la nurse as well in Virginia. She told me she will not get the shot either. She is a nurse that has been taking care of covid patients. You know what she said to me? She said we are being lied to! There have been whistleblower nurses and plenty of doctors who have indicated this.

Yes there is conspiracy theory. There are lies and the masses are believing them, and then there is truth and you have to listen to that still Small voice within you as you pray to be guided by the Holy Spirit.

[Bootstrap]

Yes there are a lot of doctors who were silenced and censored who are now gaining attention for their success but it's a little too late for a lot of people

Silenced? Not hardly. They have gotten a lot of air time in certain political circles. But the medical community relies on the evidence.

Well you're revealing why you shouldn't participate in this discussion.

You want to silence me because I trust the medical community more than I trust politicized Youtube videos?

Seriously, if there are claims with evidence that should be considered, please write them down here. I evaluated a few of them in one post. Most of this thread is barely above the level of name calling. If the Youtube video answers all questions, write those answers down so we can discuss them.

[Bootstrap]

The powers that be in our culture has been successful at fooling people by using the label conspiracy theory. Indeed there are conspiracy theories. But the powers that be in today's culture have conveniently demonized critical thinking by labeling it conspiracy theory..

Not me. I'm encouraging critical thinking. Please write down claims and the evidence given for those claims. These are scientific claims, let's use scientific sources to evaluate them.

But please don't demonize with broad labels like "the powers that be" instead of discussing the facts, then turn around and call that critical thinking. It's not. It's politicized demonization. And that's where "critical feeling" skills are helpful - what are they trying to make you feel about whom? Are they distracting from a fact-based discussion that involves critical thinking?

[Bootstrap]

Valerie, I think this is an example of critical thinking - check the claims against other sources. I didn't notice any response to the facts in this post. Since you want to encourage critical thinking, could we start by discussing these claims? Could you write down other facts you think we should discuss?

One good way to start fact-checking something like this is to Google "fact check Zev Zelenko".

Some reason to be skeptical of Vladimir "Zev" Zelenko:

Jewish MD who promoted virus cocktail is leaving community where he tested it

He had to leave the Orthodox community where he had practiced medicine because of this Covid stuff. Not a great sign of confidence. His religious community wrote an open letter that said this:

We the undersigned institutions strongly believe that the predictions presented by Dr. Zelenko have been proven false and are not supported by the overall medical establishment, specifically in his wild conclusions as to the spread of the virus in our community.

Doctor Who Promoted Malarial Drug Draws Scrutiny of Federal Prosectors

A federal prosecutor has opened a preliminary inquiry into whether an obscure New York doctor who won White House attention by claiming he could treat the coronavirus broke the law by falsely claiming that a hospital study of drugs he had promoted had won federal approval.

The doctor, Vladimir Zelenko, wrongly claimed that the Food and Drug Administration had backed a study of a drug cocktail that he asserts is effective in treating Covid-19, the disease caused by the virus. Through a misdirected email, that claim came to the attention of Aaron Zelinsky, a federal prosecutor in Baltimore working on fraud cases arising out of the pandemic.

Dr. Zelenko, known as Zev, had claimed the study had the F.D.A.’s approval to Jerome Corsi, a conservative commentator who figured in the special counsel’s investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election. Mr. Corsi then repeated that claim in an email he mistakenly directed to Mr. Zelinsky instead of to the physician, he said in a podcast this week.

Misleading claims resurface online about hydroxychloroquine's efficacy against COVID-19

The Zelenko footage emerged a day after he published an open letter asserting the same to US President Donald Trump.

But Zelenko did not provide any evidence to support his claims, and reportedly sparked the interest of federal investigators after an email gaffe by a conservative commentator in which he claimed the doctor had “an FDA approved randomized test of HCQ underway” -- which was not true.

[GaryK]

When the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released new guidelines last month for mask wearing, it announced that “less than 10 percent” of Covid-19 transmission was occurring outdoors. Media organizations repeated the statistic, and it quickly became a standard description of the frequency of outdoor transmission.

But the number is almost certainly misleading.

It appears to be based partly on a misclassification of some Covid transmission that actually took place in enclosed spaces (as I explain below). An even bigger issue is the extreme caution of C.D.C. officials, who picked a benchmark — 10 percent — so high that nobody could reasonably dispute it.

That benchmark “seems to be a huge exaggeration,” as Dr. Muge Cevik, a virologist at the University of St. Andrews, said. In truth, the share of transmission that has occurred outdoors seems to be below 1 percent and may be below 0.1 percent, multiple epidemiologists told me. The rare outdoor transmission that has happened almost all seems to have involved crowded places or close conversation.

Saying that less than 10 percent of Covid transmission occurs outdoors is akin to saying that sharks attack fewer than 20,000 swimmers a year. (The actual worldwide number is around 150.) It’s both true and deceiving.

https://messaging-custom-newsletters.ny ... 122f8093b6

No wonder it's hard at times for people to trust the experts.

[Bootstrap]

Saying that less than 10 percent of Covid transmission occurs outdoors is akin to saying that sharks attack fewer than 20,000 swimmers a year. (The actual worldwide number is around 150.) It’s both true and deceiving.

https://messaging-custom-newsletters.ny ... 122f8093b6

No wonder it's hard at times for people to trust the experts.

That's a really good article, and it discusses ranges of opinion among people who are actual experts. To me, that's quite different than saying there's no point in listening to experts. In general, I think listening to informed discussions among experts, weighing views against each other, is often the wisest way to go. It helps you know where the real questions are, which ideas really are absurd in light of the evidence.

Some people seem to expect experts to all agree on one perfect, black-and-white, unchanging answer that will not improve over time. That's not how human knowledge works. But the experts really do know more than you or I, and pretending I know better than the experts is foolish. Wisdom involves listening to the real experts, not the political loudmouths.

FWIW, I have not been wearing masks outside, and I agree with the conclusions of the article. I run every other day, and I don't wear a mask when I run. I do try to keep a distance - I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable.

I like the end of the article:

Erring on the side of protection — by exaggerating the risks of outdoor transmission — may seem to have few downsides. But it has contributed to widespread public confusion about what really matters. Some Americans are ignoring the C.D.C.’s elaborate guidelines and ditching their masks, even indoors, while others continue to harass people who walk around outdoors without a mask.

All the while, the scientific evidence points to a conclusion that is much simpler than the C.D.C.’s message: Masks make a huge difference indoors and rarely matter outdoors.

The health authorities in Britain, notably, seem to have figured this out. They have been more aggressive about restricting indoor behavior, locking down many businesses again late last year and requiring masks indoors even as most of the country is vaccinated. Outdoors, however, masks remain rare.

It certainly doesn’t seem to be causing problems. Since January, daily Covid deaths in Britain have declined more than 99 percent.

[Sudsy]

What do you do when you know that thousands upon thousands of lives could have been prevented from death but a power was in place to keep that from happening.

Question - isn't this 'power' you speak of satan continuing doing his thing ?

We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 1 John 5:19

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. Eph 2:1-2

Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
2 Cor 4:4

Satan has been at work doing his destruction ever since he was given rule over this world. Actually what he is doing in destroying lives through Covid-19 is not much compared to what he has done in many other times in history. The black death back in 1347 in 5 years some 25 to 50 million people died of it. Some figures show 200 million lost their lives due to this pandemic. We are at somewhere around 3.5 million deaths worldwide calculated by some.

Perhaps this is just another one of his attempts to overthrow Christianity and it might result in a large falling away from the faith - 2 Thess 2 ?

[RZehr]

Erring on the side of protection — by exaggerating the risks of outdoor transmission — may seem to have few downsides.

Few downsides, huh?

But it has contributed to widespread public confusion about what really matters. Some Americans are ignoring the C.D.C.’s elaborate guidelines and ditching their masks, even indoors, while others continue to harass people who walk around outdoors without a mask.

Sounds like pretty serious downsides to me.