Benjamin Unruh

[barnhart]

After careful consideration, I will suggest that the Mennonite movement has absolute limits. Just like Christianity has these limits (Jesus is not fully man/God, God does not exist, and the like) , the Mennonite movement has these limits as well. If you move beyond these boundaries, you are no longer Mennonite. I would consider Nonresistance/Pacificism to be one of these limits, maybe the fundamental limit. I can call myself a dog, but if I lack the fundamental characteristics of a dog, then I am not a dog. We need to completely avoid the "ethnic" identification and rest solely on a faith definition.

Benjamin Unruh was not a Mennonite. I don't care what he calls himself; he has left the absolute limits, and we should reject any claims that he still was one.

I see the logic but I wonder if that approach robs us of some of the lessons that could be learned. We learn when we feel the impact, not deflect it.

[JohnH]

After careful consideration, I will suggest that the Mennonite movement has absolute limits. Just like Christianity has these limits (Jesus is not fully man/God, God does not exist, and the like) , the Mennonite movement has these limits as well. If you move beyond these boundaries, you are no longer Mennonite. I would consider Nonresistance/Pacificism to be one of these limits, maybe the fundamental limit. I can call myself a dog, but if I lack the fundamental characteristics of a dog, then I am not a dog. We need to completely avoid the "ethnic" identification and rest solely on a faith definition.

Benjamin Unruh was not a Mennonite. I don't care what he calls himself; he has left the absolute limits, and we should reject any claims that he still was one.

I see the logic but I wonder if that approach robs us of some of the lessons that could be learned. We learn when we feel the impact, not deflect it.

Feel the impact of what? That ex members depart the faith and aren’t part of our church or beliefs anymore?

[Judas Maccabeus]

After careful consideration, I will suggest that the Mennonite movement has absolute limits. Just like Christianity has these limits (Jesus is not fully man/God, God does not exist, and the like) , the Mennonite movement has these limits as well. If you move beyond these boundaries, you are no longer Mennonite. I would consider Nonresistance/Pacificism to be one of these limits, maybe the fundamental limit. I can call myself a dog, but if I lack the fundamental characteristics of a dog, then I am not a dog. We need to completely avoid the "ethnic" identification and rest solely on a faith definition.

Benjamin Unruh was not a Mennonite. I don't care what he calls himself; he has left the absolute limits, and we should reject any claims that he still was one.

I see the logic but I wonder if that approach robs us of some of the lessons that could be learned. We learn when we feel the impact, not deflect it.

I definitely see there are lessons to be learned here, even if we don't consider Unruh a Mennonite.

How did he get from where he was to where he wound up? This apostasy did not occur overnight, he was aided by something. Poor church structures? Lack of accountability? People surrounding him, and him himself getting to assimilated into the world's culture? There are plenty of questions to ask and plenty of lessons to be learned here. I suspect, though, that the key to this is our distinctive doctrines. Non-resistance, non-swearing, separation. If we lose these, we may as well go and join first patriotic Baptist Church. There are plenty of those around.

[JohnH]

I mean, he simply decided to stop being a Christian. This has been the debate of Dutch Anabaptism with the argument for a “pure church” vs the “wheat and tares” view for centuries.