Why have the Anabaptists FAILED at Reaching the Masses

[silentreader]

Jesus promised salvation to the thief on the cross before he was crucified, died, and resurrected. It appears salvation was on offer as soon as Jesus began his ministry. Of course, I’m begging the question of what “salvation” means.

His ministry looked forward to salvation. The thief on the cross could not be raised together with Jesus before Jesus died.

I won’t be raised, either, until after I die.

And then only because Jesus rose.

[Ernie]

Zaccheus also had salvation come to his house according to Jesus.

I think a person could enter the Kingdom of God prior to Jesus's death and resurrection. Jesus didn't say, to enter the Kingdom of God you must believe in my death, burial, and resurrection that will be happening in A.D. 33 or whenever it was. Once that happened, Christians needed to believe in that also. But prior to this, belief in this was not necessary for gaining eternal life.

Unless you lean heavily on the prophetic past tense, salvation was not available in the same way in the time that Jesus was alive and teaching, as it was after He had been sacrificed and resurrected during the time Paul was teaching.

For some reason you and Josh seem to miss the point completely. Perhaps you need to spend time studying Hebrews.

I guess I lean on prophetic past tense because I think God is looking at the complete timeline, and what will be is just as sure as the present. The timeline needs to play itself out, but from an eternity perspective, time is just a blip. So, I don't think I believe that people are saved in different ways. I think we are all saved in the same way, just at different points along the timeline.

[Josh]

Zaccheus also had salvation come to his house according to Jesus.

I think a person could enter the Kingdom of God prior to Jesus's death and resurrection. Jesus didn't say, to enter the Kingdom of God you must believe in my death, burial, and resurrection that will be happening in A.D. 33 or whenever it was. Once that happened, Christians needed to believe in that also. But prior to this, belief in this was not necessary for gaining eternal life.

Unless you lean heavily on the prophetic past tense, salvation was not available in the same way in the time that Jesus was alive and teaching, as it was after He had been sacrificed and resurrected during the time Paul was teaching.

For some reason you and Josh seem to miss the point completely. Perhaps you need to spend time studying Hebrews.

You're saying that Christ's death was not necessary for those who died before He did"

Not at all. It was 100% necessary for Jesus to die, be buried, and be resurrected.

However, belief in those things is not what granted salvation.

A much simpler, less systematic belief and simply choice to follow Jesus is what granted it.

[Josh]

His ministry looked forward to salvation. The thief on the cross could not be raised together with Jesus before Jesus died.

I won’t be raised, either, until after I die.

And then only because Jesus rose.

I don’t think what will grant me salvation is believing Jesus rose, though. The demons also believe, and tremble.

[silentreader]

I won’t be raised, either, until after I die.

And then only because Jesus rose.

I don’t think what will grant me salvation is believing Jesus rose, though. The demons also believe, and tremble.

Do you think you can have salvation if you don't believe He rose?

[silentreader]

Zaccheus also had salvation come to his house according to Jesus.

I think a person could enter the Kingdom of God prior to Jesus's death and resurrection. Jesus didn't say, to enter the Kingdom of God you must believe in my death, burial, and resurrection that will be happening in A.D. 33 or whenever it was. Once that happened, Christians needed to believe in that also. But prior to this, belief in this was not necessary for gaining eternal life.

Unless you lean heavily on the prophetic past tense, salvation was not available in the same way in the time that Jesus was alive and teaching, as it was after He had been sacrificed and resurrected during the time Paul was teaching.

For some reason you and Josh seem to miss the point completely. Perhaps you need to spend time studying Hebrews.

I guess I lean on prophetic past tense because I think God is looking at the complete timeline, and what will be is just as sure as the present. The timeline needs to play itself out, but from an eternity perspective, time is just a blip. So, I don't think I believe that people are saved in different ways. I think we are all saved in the same way, just at different points along the timeline.

I still think you need to spend time in Hebrews. Chapter 9 maybe.

[Ernie]

For some reason you and Josh seem to miss the point completely. Perhaps you need to spend time studying Hebrews.

I guess I lean on prophetic past tense because I think God is looking at the complete timeline, and what will be is just as sure as the present. The timeline needs to play itself out, but from an eternity perspective, time is just a blip. So, I don't think I believe that people are saved in different ways. I think we are all saved in the same way, just at different points along the timeline.

I still think you need to spend time in Hebrews. Chapter 9 maybe.

If a person refuses to believe that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again, I don't expect such a person to have eternal life.

But it wouldn't surprise me if people who aren't aware of this ancient happening (during the time they are living on this earth) are given eternal life. It happened for the OT saints, and therefore it does not seem to me to be outside of the character of God to do it for people today. I wouldn't encourage anyone to bank on this and try to stay ignorant as that is basically the same as refusing to believe that Jesus rose.

[silentreader]

I guess I lean on prophetic past tense because I think God is looking at the complete timeline, and what will be is just as sure as the present. The timeline needs to play itself out, but from an eternity perspective, time is just a blip. So, I don't think I believe that people are saved in different ways. I think we are all saved in the same way, just at different points along the timeline.

I still think you need to spend time in Hebrews. Chapter 9 maybe.

If a person refuses to believe that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again, I don't expect such a person to have eternal life.

But it wouldn't surprise me if people who aren't aware of this ancient happening (during the time they are living on this earth) are given eternal life. It happened for the OT saints, and therefore it does not seem to me to be outside of the character of God to do it for people today. I wouldn't encourage anyone to bank on this and try to stay ignorant as that is basically the same as refusing to believe that Jesus rose.

Interesting. So why evangelize, or disciple, if you prefer, if people would be better off not knowing and thus not being put at risk of making the wrong choice?

[Josh]

And then only because Jesus rose.

I don’t think what will grant me salvation is believing Jesus rose, though. The demons also believe, and tremble.

Do you think you can have salvation if you don't believe He rose?

That’s putting the cart before the horse. A believer believes the Bible. Believing the Bible doesn’t make me a born again person, though.

[silentreader]

I don’t think what will grant me salvation is believing Jesus rose, though. The demons also believe, and tremble.

Do you think you can have salvation if you don't believe He rose?

That’s putting the cart before the horse. A believer believes the Bible. Believing the Bible doesn’t make me a born again person, though.

If you are going to respond why don't you answer the actual question?