Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 4:41 pm
Yes, I don't yet understand the gospel some here seem to believe that saves us. The Gospel I believe has an entry point to 'getting people saved' as simply stated with these few references -
Romans 10:9, “If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Acts 16:31 - The jailor asked Paul and Silas “What must I do to be saved?” The answer was “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.”
What is of first importance that one must believe then about Jesus to be saved ? Paul explains this as the Gospel that saves us - 1 Cor 15 AMP
It all depends on whether you think we should start with Paul's teachings and anecdotes, and then add in Jesus's teachings at some point after that if they fit with Paul.
Or whether you think we should start with Jesus's teachings about becoming part of the Kingdom of God, and then interpret the Epistles in light of Jesus's teachings.
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 4:41 pm
Yes, I don't yet understand the gospel some here seem to believe that saves us. The Gospel I believe has an entry point to 'getting people saved' as simply stated with these few references -
Romans 10:9, “If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Acts 16:31 - The jailor asked Paul and Silas “What must I do to be saved?” The answer was “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.”
What is of first importance that one must believe then about Jesus to be saved ? Paul explains this as the Gospel that saves us - 1 Cor 15 AMP
It all depends on whether you think we should start with Paul's teachings and anecdotes, and then add in Jesus's teachings at some point after that if they fit with Paul.
Or whether you think we should start with Jesus's teachings about becoming part of the Kingdom of God, and then interpret the Epistles in light of Jesus's teachings.
Unless you lean heavily on the prophetic past tense, salvation was not available in the same way in the time that Jesus was alive and teaching, as it was after He had been sacrificed and resurrected during the time Paul was teaching.
Sudsy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 4:41 pm
Yes, I don't yet understand the gospel some here seem to believe that saves us. The Gospel I believe has an entry point to 'getting people saved' as simply stated with these few references -
Romans 10:9, “If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Acts 16:31 - The jailor asked Paul and Silas “What must I do to be saved?” The answer was “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.”
What is of first importance that one must believe then about Jesus to be saved ? Paul explains this as the Gospel that saves us - 1 Cor 15 AMP
It all depends on whether you think we should start with Paul's teachings and anecdotes, and then add in Jesus's teachings at some point after that if they fit with Paul.
Or whether you think we should start with Jesus's teachings about becoming part of the Kingdom of God, and then interpret the Epistles in light of Jesus's teachings.
Unless you lean heavily on the prophetic past tense, salvation was not available in the same way in the time that Jesus was alive and teaching, as it was after He had been sacrificed and resurrected during the time Paul was teaching.
It seems to odd to think Jesus came to offer salvation, but also never said anything about it.
Ernie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 5:03 pm
It all depends on whether you think we should start with Paul's teachings and anecdotes, and then add in Jesus's teachings at some point after that if they fit with Paul.
Or whether you think we should start with Jesus's teachings about becoming part of the Kingdom of God, and then interpret the Epistles in light of Jesus's teachings.
Unless you lean heavily on the prophetic past tense, salvation was not available in the same way in the time that Jesus was alive and teaching, as it was after He had been sacrificed and resurrected during the time Paul was teaching.
It seems to odd to think Jesus came to offer salvation, but also never said anything about it.
Do you think that? Didn't He say, "You must be born again"? Was that available when He was alive and teaching it?
Unless you lean heavily on the prophetic past tense, salvation was not available in the same way in the time that Jesus was alive and teaching, as it was after He had been sacrificed and resurrected during the time Paul was teaching.
It seems to odd to think Jesus came to offer salvation, but also never said anything about it.
Do you think that? Didn't He say, "You must be born again"? Was that available when He was alive and teaching it?
Jesus promised salvation to the thief on the cross before he was crucified, died, and resurrected. It appears salvation was on offer as soon as Jesus began his ministry. Of course, I’m begging the question of what “salvation” means.
It seems to odd to think Jesus came to offer salvation, but also never said anything about it.
Do you think that? Didn't He say, "You must be born again"? Was that available when He was alive and teaching it?
Jesus promised salvation to the thief on the cross before he was crucified, died, and resurrected. It appears salvation was on offer as soon as Jesus began his ministry. Of course, I’m begging the question of what “salvation” means.
His ministry looked forward to salvation. The thief on the cross could not be raised together with Jesus before Jesus died.
Do you think that? Didn't He say, "You must be born again"? Was that available when He was alive and teaching it?
Jesus promised salvation to the thief on the cross before he was crucified, died, and resurrected. It appears salvation was on offer as soon as Jesus began his ministry. Of course, I’m begging the question of what “salvation” means.
His ministry looked forward to salvation. The thief on the cross could not be raised together with Jesus before Jesus died.
Zaccheus also had salvation come to his house according to Jesus.
I think a person could enter the Kingdom of God prior to Jesus's death and resurrection. Jesus didn't say, to enter the Kingdom of God you must believe in my death, burial, and resurrection that will be happening in A.D. 33 or whenever it was. Once that happened, Christians needed to believe in that also. But prior to this, belief in this was not necessary for gaining eternal life.
Ernie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 7:18 pm
Zaccheus also had salvation come to his house according to Jesus.
I think a person could enter the Kingdom of God prior to Jesus's death and resurrection. Jesus didn't say, to enter the Kingdom of God you must believe in my death, burial, and resurrection that will be happening in A.D. 33 or whenever it was. Once that happened, Christians needed to believe in that also. But prior to this, belief in this was not necessary for gaining eternal life.
Unless you lean heavily on the prophetic past tense, salvation was not available in the same way in the time that Jesus was alive and teaching, as it was after He had been sacrificed and resurrected during the time Paul was teaching.
For some reason you and Josh seem to miss the point completely. Perhaps you need to spend time studying Hebrews.
Ernie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 7:18 pm
Zaccheus also had salvation come to his house according to Jesus.
I think a person could enter the Kingdom of God prior to Jesus's death and resurrection. Jesus didn't say, to enter the Kingdom of God you must believe in my death, burial, and resurrection that will be happening in A.D. 33 or whenever it was. Once that happened, Christians needed to believe in that also. But prior to this, belief in this was not necessary for gaining eternal life.
Unless you lean heavily on the prophetic past tense, salvation was not available in the same way in the time that Jesus was alive and teaching, as it was after He had been sacrificed and resurrected during the time Paul was teaching.
For some reason you and Josh seem to miss the point completely. Perhaps you need to spend time studying Hebrews.
You're saying that Christ's death was not necessary for those who died before He did"