Gender confusion

[Bootstrap]

The authors of the new testament speak about sin and degeneracy of their times in very explicit terms, especially as it creeps into and corrupts the church.

Definitely. With clarity, but not with the kind of hostility and the kind of language that some people use here.

This may be worth a Bible study.

What are you really advocating for, and what language do you have such a problem with?

I'm advocating this:

Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.

And I have a problem with language that is the same as cursing. This kind of thing:

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

And I am advocating this:

If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.

I think those verses say a lot about how Jesus related to sinners. And I think Matthew 23 tells us a lot about what Jesus thought of those who did not.

I could post a whole wall of bible verses that are extremely hostile to sin and those who promote it, but I don't think that would really help.

Probably best to take them one at a time and look at them in context. The problem with the "whole wall of bible verses" approach is that you lose the individual context of each one. For Scripture "a text without a context is only a pretext". And you're right, throwing individual verses at each other rarely helps, but studying them together carefully and prayerfully often does.

For instance, If you were alive in 53 AD, would you object to Paul turning someone over to satan for the destruction of their flesh? I strongly suspect you would find that very hostile and unhelpful.

What about Acts 5:3? How would you feel as an observer watching Peter ask Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?? I suspect you wouldn't like it, and you would feel even worse after he died in the next breath, seemingly with no chance of redemption.

I'll start with the first of these verses, I'll start a thread on it.

And by the way, instead of telling me what you suspect I will say, perhaps you can just try to understand what I actually say? I think I take simple obedience to Scripture very seriously.

[Bootstrap]

But I would like to hear your case, when have you ever seen civility work? I have not seen any wins in the culture war from dealing with evil agendas civilly, you give an inch, they take a mile.

Here's something I've pointed out before - instead of using a biblical worldview and biblical language, most of the discussion on MennoNet uses a political culture war worldview and political culture war language.

Jesus doesn't tell us how to win the culture war. He doesn't talk about civility. He talks about love. He tells us to be salt and light. He tells us to be yeast, to be a mustard seed.

You ask when I have ever seen civility work. I have seen love work. And the New Testament is full of examples of this. Martyr's Mirror contains some examples of this. Let me ask you the opposite: when have you seen hostility and hatred work? And what exactly was the result?

But love doesn't always work. And it's costly.

[temporal1]

If i had the opportunity to make 1 change in U.S. government, i would remove the option for
ORGANIZED POLITICS, ORGANIZED POLITICAL BLOCS. POLITICAL LOBBIES.

These serve to over ride our basic humanity. They ALWAYS begin with some attractive premise! ALWAYS.
Then, as human constructs do, they go off into ditches.

Evidence is, once in these organized entities, it’s hard to get out. That’s another warning sign.

[Grace]

It is actually the opposite. States around the country are criminalizing any sort of medical treatment for LGBT teens. For example, here is Idaho: https://www.hrc.org/news/idaho-house-pa ... nder-youth

There are actually over 20 states where laws criminalizing LGBT medical care have been introduced, under consideration, or passed.

Biden wants to change all that. According to his statement at the his debauchery party earlier in the week, he wants to challenge doctors who refuse to mutilate children who are gender confused.

"We need to challenge the hundreds of callous and cynical laws introduced in the states targeting transgender children, terrifying families and criminalizing doctors who give children the care they need. And we have to protect these children so they know they are loved and that we will stand up for them and so they can seek for themselves.
Folks, racism, anti-Semitism, homophobia, transphobia — they’re all connected.”

[Bootstrap]

I have not advocated for hostility towards the people who are struggling with these things, but rather towards the very real and conscious agendas that want to destroy those people. Christians cannot continue to pretend that all these institutions, born out of modernity are their friends.

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

I agree with you on this.

I think both sides of the political spectrum are worldly, though. And I think one of the biggest threats to the church is allying ourselves with secular political factions, using their language and worldview instead of what the Bible teaches.

It's about the Kingdom versus the World. It's not about the political right versus the political left. And the Kingdom is built on love for God and love for neighbor.

[Bootstrap]

I think the ‘transgenderism’ is nonexistent because of this hostility you are so fond of. And it’s not because those people are somehow seeing the light, but rather they are leaving.

I’ve seen this happen, and those families have very lonely roads to travel because of all the hostility and very little compassion.

I have seen this happen too. Not in plain churches, though I have known people like that who came from the plain churches.

And when they tell their stories, I hear many examples of Christians showing hostility and hatred in ways that Jesus did not. I know for a fact that some of these actually happened. I think it's a bad witness. I don't think it's Christlike.

I do think we need to stand firm on biblical truth. I hear very little public talk about how to do that while walking in love in a Christlike way. I hear a whole lot of hostile culture war talk.

[temporal1]

Biden wants to change all that. According to his statement at the his debauchery party earlier in the week, he wants to challenge doctors who refuse to mutilate children who are gender confused.

"We need to challenge the hundreds of callous and cynical laws introduced in the states targeting transgender children, terrifying families and criminalizing doctors who give children the care they need. And we have to protect these children so they know they are loved and that we will stand up for them and so they can seek for themselves.
Folks, racism, anti-Semitism, homophobia, transphobia — they’re all connected.”

100% correct.
And their current ENTITLEMENT to do it - at taxpayer expense!!

They’re now GLOATING knowing they have direct access to TRILLIONS to “do as they please” - with minimal restraint.
It’s sickening to witness. Caligula and beyond.

There is no way all that money will lead to better. That’s not how evil works.

Grace,
in former times, politicians were known to be LIARS.
presently, they no longer lie! - they are 100% candid about their evil plans!!

this removes any temptation for speculation. (as you do, quote them using their very words.)

unfortunately, many are in such deep denial, they refuse to believe what is served to them on silver platters.
READ IT AND WEEP.

[temporal1]

I think the ‘transgenderism’ is nonexistent because of this hostility you are so fond of. And it’s not because those people are somehow seeing the light, but rather they are leaving.

I’ve seen this happen, and those families have very lonely roads to travel because of all the hostility and very little compassion.

I have seen this happen too. Not in plain churches, though I have known people like that who came from the plain churches.

And when they tell their stories, I hear many examples of Christians showing hostility and hatred in ways that Jesus did not. I know for a fact that some of these actually happened. I think it's a bad witness. I don't think it's Christlike.

I do think we need to stand firm on biblical truth. I hear very little public talk about how to do that while walking in love in a Christlike way. I hear a whole lot of hostile culture war talk.

people hear what they want to hear; starting off by accusations of wrong-doing and unChristian hearts is not a winning strategy.

[nett]

I have not advocated for hostility towards the people who are struggling with these things, but rather towards the very real and conscious agendas that want to destroy those people. Christians cannot continue to pretend that all these institutions, born out of modernity are their friends.

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

I agree with you on this.

I think both sides of the political spectrum are worldly, though. And I think one of the biggest threats to the church is allying ourselves with secular political factions, using their language and worldview instead of what the Bible teaches.

It's about the Kingdom versus the World. It's not about the political right versus the political left. And the Kingdom is built on love for God and love for neighbor.

I'm not on a side of the political spectrum, nor am I allying myself with a secular faction. My main problem is people who claim to be Christians, but open support and advocate for destruction of children's bodies.

[Soloist]

A young lady (not in conservative or Anabaptist) transitioned. Due to taking testosterone, her voice was deepened. Also she has pelvic pain and most likely sterility due to damage from testosterone on her ovaries. She developed an Adam’s apple too. She also had a mastectomy at age 16. Now at age 21 she repented of her transgenderism as sin and started going to church. She looks like a man pretending to be a woman.
After someone gets to know this young lady they can get past it…. But she needs someone basically ready to intervene meeting new people and she still struggles with her desires and depression. Her self worth as a woman is under constant attack due to the choices she made and generalized problems to begin with. People treat her poorly until they know.
While I don’t advocate for accepting transgenderism as acceptable, we don’t need to treat them harshly for the bad choices they made. Accept them as Christians prior to repentance? Never. Let them attend? I can imagine it would be a real challenge to accept someone actively living a sinful life in church. Treat them the same as someone who is D/R, being mindful of course of reality of their own choices.
She also struggles to find a therapist that won’t just affirm her as a male. There are people regularly asking how to find a therapist who won’t affirm them but rather help them work though it. Society is making that request very challenging as a therapist who doesn’t affirm is in danger of being suspended as well as the psychologist and psychiatrist.
Often transgender‘s are found among people with OCD or autism and these people are easily misled by their own structured view on society along with such nonsense as that book.
Judgement should be reserved for those pushing for social reform to make it easier and encouraged or call evil good.