Evidence for Evolution

[Ken]

Oh, that Ken. You would benefit from the teachings of Ken Ham.

Which teachings? The ones about how Noah's family rode on dinosaurs?



and took a pair of parasaurolophus onto the ark?



Or the one about how there were carnivorous dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden but that they ate bananas rather than Adam and Eve?



Or the one about how Jesus probably rode dinosaurs

[ken_sylvania]

I'm not an expert in genetics either. I teach it at the HS level in both regular and AP bio classes but that is just briefly scratching the surface of the subject. However since all living organisms on the planet have the same DNA, just in different combinations and chromosomes, one could theoretically take the DNA of any organism and edit/rewrite it enough to produce any other organism. Just like you could take the same exact 26 letters and assorted punctuation marks found in any book in the English language and with enough editing and re-writing turn it into any other book in the English language. You could take the letters in the Bible and rearrange them to form James Joyce Ulysses or the Lord of the Rings or any other work in the English language. So yes, organisms can, in fact, vary infinitely

Of course, what would be a lot harder to do, would be to take the letters from Lord of the Rings and, with only random copy-style mistakes, have them proceed through a series of iterations in which the work is changed significantly all the way until it eventually becomes the Bible. With the whole thing making enough sense throughout the entire process for it to be considered high quality literature - which is basically what evolutionary theory claims to have happened in developing complex species from simple ancestors.

[Ken]

I'm not an expert in genetics either. I teach it at the HS level in both regular and AP bio classes but that is just briefly scratching the surface of the subject. However since all living organisms on the planet have the same DNA, just in different combinations and chromosomes, one could theoretically take the DNA of any organism and edit/rewrite it enough to produce any other organism. Just like you could take the same exact 26 letters and assorted punctuation marks found in any book in the English language and with enough editing and re-writing turn it into any other book in the English language. You could take the letters in the Bible and rearrange them to form James Joyce Ulysses or the Lord of the Rings or any other work in the English language. So yes, organisms can, in fact, vary infinitely

Of course, what would be a lot harder to do, would be to take the letters from Lord of the Rings and, with only random copy-style mistakes, have them proceed through a series of iterations in which the work is changed significantly all the way until it eventually becomes the Bible. With the whole thing making enough sense throughout the entire process for it to be considered high quality literature - which is basically what evolutionary theory claims to have happened in developing complex species from simple ancestors.

No, that's not at all what the theory of evolution claims to have happened.

There is no direction or master plan in evolution. There are simply some traits that confer greater fitness and others that confer lessor fitness and evolution suggests that those traits that confer greater fitness will be selected for over time.

So if, for example, there were millions of copies of Lord of the Rings and they replicated themselves every year but only 1 in 100 survived to reproduce. And there were random changes each generation (mutations) that improved or hindered the survival chances of each Lord of the Ring offspring. Say a mutation that turned one book red, or another waterproof, or a third into a bigger copy than the rest. One would expect that those traits that increased survival and reproduction would become more common and those that disadvantaged that copy would disappear over time.

Repeat for 10,000 generations and your original copy of Lord of the Rings will look tremendously different from the copy 10,000 generations later. Just like if you played the telephone game around a circle for 10,000 different cycles, the final message would be unrecognizable from the original one.

If there are about 30 mutations in each individual in each generation and you have a breeding population in the millions that is tens of millions of possible mutations to select from for advantageous and disadvantageous traits for every generation of that population. Multiply that by say 10,000 generations and you can generate a lot of change. Alternatively for some species that are well adapted you might see very little change over long periods of time such as is the case with horseshoe crabs or jellyfish.

Evolution doesn't mean you are going to create a Bible or any other specific book. There is no plan. No beginning and end. It just means that if there are evolutionary pressures then the final result could be dramatically different from what you started with.

[temporal1]

Of course, what would be a lot harder to do, would be to take the letters from Lord of the Rings and, with only random copy-style mistakes, have them proceed through a series of iterations in which the work is changed significantly all the way until it eventually becomes the Bible.

With the whole thing making enough sense throughout the entire process for it to be considered high quality literature -
which is basically what evolutionary theory claims to have happened in developing complex species from simple ancestors.

This is a fine bit of thinking and writing. Thank you.
In my limited view, i find science interesting, sometimes stunning, i’m grateful for many advances the world enjoys.

Knowing, for sure, science ALWAYS runs behind God, never in front of Him.
In my view, science proves God, a bit here, a bit there, it will not prove “in full,” regardless of how impressive it ever becomes in our limited understanding.

Genesis 2:7
https://biblehub.com/genesis/2-7.htm

“The dust of the ground” was sufficient for God to create man. (DNA supports this!) God didn’t have to bring anything beyond what was present on earth. God uses simple Truth to reflect to (us) how small+unknowing we are. He’s very good at this.


Man “discovers” 1 & 0:

Machine Language (low level language)
Low-Level language is the only language which can be understood by the computer. Low-level language is also known as Machine Language.

The machine language contains only two symbols 1 & 0.

All the instructions of machine language are written in the form of binary numbers 1's & 0's. A computer can directly understand the machine language.
https://www.cs.mtsu.edu/~xyang/2170/com ... 20language.

God is great.

[temporal1]

God is uniquely able to use (soil) to create as He wills. He is unlimited.

One observation i’ve read states that IF evolution were as contemporary science claims, where is fossil evidence of the “connecting” species? There should be LOTS.

The more science reveals, the more God is affirmed as The Creator. “The best” scientists are humbled by their findings.
The more they know, the more they know they don’t know.

It requires fanciful imagination to believe in evolution as presented in contemporary science.
It’s not easy to deny God.

[Ken]

One observation i’ve read states that IF evolution were as contemporary science claims, where is fossil evidence of the “connecting” species? There should be LOTS.

There are vast numbers of transition species in the fossil record as well as living today.

[AndersonD]

One observation i’ve read states that IF evolution were as contemporary science claims, where is fossil evidence of the “connecting” species? There should be LOTS.

There are vast numbers of transition species in the fossil record as well as living today.

They are POSSIBLY transition species. But it could also be conjecture. Again, no empirical data.

[Falco Knotwise]

To everyone participating here:

So are you descended from an ape on your mother’s or on your father’s side?

[AndersonD]

My favorite astrophysicist, Dr Jason Lisle.

Can you actually summarize without posting an hour and a half sermon from some community church?

Sure, Dr Lisle doesn't divorce the Bible from science and discusses current evidence for a young earth. I find his arguments very reasonable.

[ken_sylvania]

I'm not an expert in genetics either. I teach it at the HS level in both regular and AP bio classes but that is just briefly scratching the surface of the subject. However since all living organisms on the planet have the same DNA, just in different combinations and chromosomes, one could theoretically take the DNA of any organism and edit/rewrite it enough to produce any other organism. Just like you could take the same exact 26 letters and assorted punctuation marks found in any book in the English language and with enough editing and re-writing turn it into any other book in the English language. You could take the letters in the Bible and rearrange them to form James Joyce Ulysses or the Lord of the Rings or any other work in the English language. So yes, organisms can, in fact, vary infinitely

Of course, what would be a lot harder to do, would be to take the letters from Lord of the Rings and, with only random copy-style mistakes, have them proceed through a series of iterations in which the work is changed significantly all the way until it eventually becomes the Bible. With the whole thing making enough sense throughout the entire process for it to be considered high quality literature - which is basically what evolutionary theory claims to have happened in developing complex species from simple ancestors.

No, that's not at all what the theory of evolution claims to have happened.

There is no direction or master plan in evolution. There are simply some traits that confer greater fitness and others that confer lessor fitness and evolution suggests that those traits that confer greater fitness will be selected for over time.

So if, for example, there were millions of copies of Lord of the Rings and they replicated themselves every year but only 1 in 100 survived to reproduce. And there were random changes each generation (mutations) that improved or hindered the survival chances of each Lord of the Ring offspring. Say a mutation that turned one book red, or another waterproof, or a third into a bigger copy than the rest. One would expect that those traits that increased survival and reproduction would become more common and those that disadvantaged that copy would disappear over time.

Repeat for 10,000 generations and your original copy of Lord of the Rings will look tremendously different from the copy 10,000 generations later. Just like if you played the telephone game around a circle for 10,000 different cycles, the final message would be unrecognizable from the original one.

If there are about 30 mutations in each individual in each generation and you have a breeding population in the millions that is tens of millions of possible mutations to select from for advantageous and disadvantageous traits for every generation of that population. Multiply that by say 10,000 generations and you can generate a lot of change. Alternatively for some species that are well adapted you might see very little change over long periods of time such as is the case with horseshoe crabs or jellyfish.

Evolution doesn't mean you are going to create a Bible or any other specific book. There is no plan. No beginning and end. It just means that if there are evolutionary pressures then the final result could be dramatically different from what you started with.

Nonsense. The analogy was the one that you provided - comparing DNA to letters of the alphabet. Evolution's claim is, essentially, that random changes can happen in the DNA that add information and improve the coded instructions. And that if this happens often enough, instead of instructions on how to make a single-cell organism it turns into instructions on how to make a human being.