Do you feel persecuted for your faith or culture in America?

[Bootstrap]

I suspect there's a big difference in how persecuted different people feel here. Let's discuss.

[Josh]

I would note that 6 years ago, I thought it very unlikely. Recent trends and polarisation make me feel this could change. At the same time, I am not in favour of alarmism, particularly anyone who thinks persecution is coming anytime very soon. I would more foresee it on a 20-30 year time span, much as in 1874 in the region now known as the Ukraine, nobody could have seen the events in Russia in 1917 happening.

[Soloist]

I suspect a bigger question would be what is persecution? Without answering that, we could all claim persecution at one time or another.

[Bootstrap]

I suspect a bigger question would be what is persecution? Without answering that, we could all claim persecution at one time or another.

How would you answer that?

[Bootstrap]

At summer camp, my children were involved in reenactments involving persecution scenarios. I think that's a good thing, we need to be prepared. This was a big theme when I was in high school and college, too. We do need to count the cost.

But I don't feel persecuted in America today. There have been times that pacifists were jailed or mistreated. I barely missed the draft, I had written several versions of my testimony for the board and was a little let down when Vietnam ended a few years before I needed it.

I know lots of people who think I'm old-fashioned or just don't get it. I've had trans sexuality explained to me dozens of times by people who figured I just didn't understand the basics and needed to be taught, and when I explain that I think our bodies are our bodies, we were made that way, and our bodies are not confused, they don't know what to do with that. But that's not persecution.

[Soloist]

I suspect a bigger question would be what is persecution? Without answering that, we could all claim persecution at one time or another.

How would you answer that?

Persecution is either narrowly focused to threats to your physical well being or extended to economic hardship and social pressure.
For example, not wanting to bake a cake for a wedding you cannot support. We can argue that under our laws these things shouldn't have happened. This is economic and social pressure.
Having your church burned down because you want to obey the call to assemble is physical threats and economic hardship.
You also can get persecution from people called Christians mocking you if you believe in practicing the head covering or the holy kiss. Or actually meeting. I have seen many posts saying you can worship from home on Reddit mocking Christians desiring closer fellowship then the internet. Persecution from society comes in many differing forms.

[Josh]

I know lots of people who think I'm old-fashioned or just don't get it. I've had trans sexuality explained to me dozens of times by people who figured I just didn't understand the basics and needed to be taught, and when I explain that I think our bodies are our bodies, we were made that way, and our bodies are not confused, they don't know what to do with that. But that's not persecution.

If I did that at my job, I'd lose my job. End of discussion.

I'm not quite sure I'd call that "persecution", but eventually it will get to that point as it becomes almost impossible for anyone to hold biblical views without facing an angry mob demanding their employer fire them.

[Bootstrap]

I suspect a bigger question would be what is persecution? Without answering that, we could all claim persecution at one time or another.

How would you answer that?

Persecution is either narrowly focused to threats to your physical well being or extended to economic hardship and social pressure.
For example, not wanting to bake a cake for a wedding you cannot support. We can argue that under our laws these things shouldn't have happened. This is economic and social pressure.
Having your church burned down because you want to obey the call to assemble is physical threats and economic hardship.
You also can get persecution from people called Christians mocking you if you believe in practicing the head covering or the holy kiss. Or actually meeting. I have seen many posts saying you can worship from home on Reddit mocking Christians desiring closer fellowship then the internet. Persecution from society comes in many differing forms.

How would you distinguish (1) mocking from (2) disagreeing and giving reasons for the disagreement?

To me, it often feels like some people really do mock and troll others instead of actually discussing, asking questions, building on what the other said. On the other hand, some people seem to feel unsafe or persecuted if someone strongly disagrees with them. I think I experience that both with some trans people and some Christians.

I agree that mocking is wrong. And I do think a big part of partisanship is about mocking, trolling, and flooding instead of actually having a conversation among people who are discussing the same topic, based on their own knowledge and experiences.

[Bootstrap]

I know lots of people who think I'm old-fashioned or just don't get it. I've had trans sexuality explained to me dozens of times by people who figured I just didn't understand the basics and needed to be taught, and when I explain that I think our bodies are our bodies, we were made that way, and our bodies are not confused, they don't know what to do with that. But that's not persecution.

If I did that at my job, I'd lose my job. End of discussion.

I'm not quite sure I'd call that "persecution", but eventually it will get to that point as it becomes almost impossible for anyone to hold biblical views without facing an angry mob demanding their employer fire them.

Sure. In my previous job, that would have happened to me, too. But my previous job was not about my views on sexuality, it was about software. And I did sometimes wind up working with someone who was trans. He/she did not pick on me for my faith, I did not pick on him/her for her sexuality, and I learned how to have long conversations without using pronouns. I wouldn't call that persecution.

I suspect any conversation about my faith or his/her sexuality would have ended badly. Our employer needed to make the workplace safe for both of us.

[Soloist]

How would you distinguish (1) mocking from (2) disagreeing and giving reasons for the disagreement?

To me, it often feels like some people really do mock and troll others instead of actually discussing, asking questions, building on what the other said. On the other hand, some people seem to feel unsafe or persecuted if someone strongly disagrees with them. I think I experience that both with some trans people and some Christians.

I agree that mocking is wrong. And I do think a big part of partisanship is about mocking, trolling, and flooding instead of actually having a conversation among people who are discussing the same topic, based on their own knowledge and experiences.

My parents have been extremely hostile in the past because of our choices in child raising and moral choices. They clearly disagree with me but they also mock my choices. Lately its been better given the contrast between me and my brother who is considering himself gender-less and heading towards MTF likely. His children think Christians are hateful because we wouldn't call my niece a nephew.
I've had discussions with you I've disagreed with you on but its not crossed into mocking. Sometimes its hard to define a clear line between the two.
I've had discussions with Christians were they get extremely hostile with me but I wouldn't consider that persecution.
A young lady I knew who attended a baptist church felt convicted to start headcovering and she was persecuted by her husband (the associate pastor) and others in her church until under pressure and all alone she stopped. I consider that persecution even though there likely was no mocking in place.
Another note on pressure, if you are the only one holding a view and everyone else disagrees with you, that also is society pressure as well and can be a form of persecution.