George Floyd

[joshuabgood]

When the NT refers to the sin of favoritism, is it talking about favoritism within political/governmental/structural systems or is it referring to favoritism within the NT Kingdom? You say we should not prefer or favor whiteness. I fully agree. Should NT Kingdom adherents prefer or favor any ethnicity above another?

You mention Jesus not being a respecter of persons. Yet, aren't you in reality saying that we should be respecters of persons? That's precisely why I asked the earlier question about ken_sylvania's line of questions. I have the confidence he would have asked those questions regardless the ethnicity of the person killed.

Favoritism is with regard to any particular faction. In this society white supremacy has a long and storied history and shared identify. To deny that is historically, indefensible in my mind. Again I spoke to this in more depth in the video I did earlier.

Being no respecter of persons is the same as not showing favoritism. In this society we favor white culture. We prefer it. Our systems were built that way. We have conversely marginalized people of color...we prefer them in prison. We built it that way.

I'm not disputing that US history has terrible things in it that favored white culture. My question is: when the NT speaks of the sins of favoritism and being respecters of persons is it speaking about within wordly power structures/societies or within the NT Kingdom?

The message is for anyone who will "hear" the good word. Further, if you haven't please read Keeshon Washington's essays online regarding racism/favoritism also within the CA community. He is a school teacher, FBEP alum, that works at Tidings of Peace, a very conservative CA school in York. And when you do...if you take a learning stance, you may find yourself moving on some points.

Or read any number of CA facebook comments and we quickly see racism isn't something just relegated to "the world." Favoritism needs to be called out in the church as well.

[Robert]

In this society we favor white culture.

Would you define law and order a white culture thing? In sports, movies and many other cultural things, I do not see white culture. Sagging pants, fancy sneakers, rap music, hip hop dancing are all from the black community and they dominate US culture right now.

We have conversely marginalized people of color.

Have and are are to different things. Yes, we have, but no, we are not now.

in one sense the system seems to prefer them in prison.

Are massive amounts of blacks being imprisoned for things they did not do? I see some, but not massive amounts and when identified, they are being released. I am so glad we finally got to this point, yet I do not see it happening in large numbers today.

[video][/video]

[Josh]

Favoritism is with regard to any particular faction. In this society white supremacy has a long and storied history and shared identify. To deny that is historically, indefensible in my mind. Again I spoke to this in more depth in the video I did earlier.

Being no respecter of persons is the same as not showing favoritism. In this society we favor white culture. We prefer it. Our systems were built that way. We have conversely marginalized people of color...we prefer them in prison. We built it that way.

I'm not disputing that US history has terrible things in it that favored white culture. My question is: when the NT speaks of the sins of favoritism and being respecters of persons is it speaking about within wordly power structures/societies or within the NT Kingdom?

The message is for anyone who will "hear" the good word. Further, if you haven't please read Keeshon Washington's essays online regarding racism/favoritism also within the CA community. He is a school teacher, FBEP alum, that works at Tidings of Peace, a very conservative CA school in York. And when you do...if you take a learning stance, you may find yourself moving on some points.

Or read any number of CA facebook comments and we quickly see racism isn't something just relegated to "the world." Favoritism needs to be called out in the church as well.

Having met Keeshon and gone on a trash a thon with him and my other best friend, who is the only friend of mine I have persuaded to become a conservative Anabaptist church member and who also happens to be a black American, I would posit that he and I are closer, politically speaking, than you and him are.

I repeat what I said earlier: the Bible says a lot of things, but calling out racism and white supremacy as root issues of sin and evil isn’t one of them. I invite you to explore other origins for society’s ills.

Perhaps you would like to talk to me about what disbanding a police department actually looks like. Or what it’s like for one of your best friends to lead you to the Lord, then become a conservative Anabaptist member before you do, and both of you help each other navigate learning a totally new and foreign culture. Or what it’s like when you leave your church over an abuse scandal - and then your friend leaves, too, 2 years later.

Or you can keep being some white guy lecturing me on some forum about my problematic whiteness and fragility and recommend books to me that I’ve already read, and quit believing in once I became a Christian.

[joshuabgood]

Robert...thanks for your post.

In short, it seems we agree on what the difference is. I think systemic racism does exist, yet today, in our society (though to be sure we have made progress) - and you, and the others, feel that systemic racism does not exist.

I don't think I have the energy to argue about it further...and also, I pretty much in the thread a few months back, said whatever it is I have to say.

Best to all...

Josh

[joshuabgood]

Having met Keeshon and gone on a trash a thon with him and my other best friend, who is the only friend of mine I have persuaded to become a conservative Anabaptist church member and who also happens to be a black American, I would posit that he and I are closer, politically speaking, than you and him are.

Have you read his essays? As for "politically speaking," I am not political, so your assessment may well be accurate. I reject the politics of this world.

I repeat what I said earlier: the Bible says a lot of things, but calling out racism and white supremacy as root issues of sin and evil isn’t one of them. I invite you to explore other origins for society’s ills

Would you mind pointing me to where I said they were the root evil? Because I don't believe that. I believe pride is the root and we naturally prefer people that remind us of ourselves. That is the root.

Perhaps you would like to talk to me about what disbanding a police department actually looks like. Or what it’s like for one of your best friends to lead you to the Lord, then become a conservative Anabaptist member before you do, and both of you help each other navigate learning a totally new and foreign culture. Or what it’s like when you leave your church over an abuse scandal - and then your friend leaves, too, 2 years later.

My comment about having to shut down institutions to recreate them with a different culture has to do with systems leadership theory. Reform won't work in some cases. Hence my NYC DOE example. Schools needed to be closed with new ones with new cultures reopened. I am sorry about your experience at the CA church you attended. I am somewhat familiar with what happened there and I respect your commitment to uncovering what needed to be uncovered.

Or you can keep being some white guy lecturing me on some forum about my problematic whiteness and fragility and recommend books to me that I’ve already read, and quit believing in once I became a Christian.

If you'll note, I am always careful to write "if you haven't read them already" so as not to insult anyone. You seem insulted so I apologize for insulting you. As for lecturing you...as I noted to Robert. I'll refrain as I've written what I need to write.

[Robert]

Robert...thanks for your post.

In short, it seems we agree on what the difference is. I think systemic racism does exist, yet today, in our society (though to be sure we have made progress) - and you, and the others, feel that systemic racism does not exist.

I don't think I have the energy to argue about it further...and also, I pretty much in the thread a few months back, said whatever it is I have to say.

Best to all...

Josh

Do you define law and order as white culture?

[joshuabgood]

Robert...thanks for your post.

In short, it seems we agree on what the difference is. I think systemic racism does exist, yet today, in our society (though to be sure we have made progress) - and you, and the others, feel that systemic racism does not exist.

I don't think I have the energy to argue about it further...and also, I pretty much in the thread a few months back, said whatever it is I have to say.

Best to all...

Josh

Do you define law and order as white culture?

Can you tell me what you mean by "law and order?" Do you mean the Nixon doctrine? Or the Trump version?

[Bootstrap]

Do you define law and order as white culture?

Can you tell me what you mean by "law and order?" Do you mean the Nixon doctrine? Or the Trump version?

Exactly. In many places, at least, I hear two similar phrases used very differently:

"rule of law" = police and presidents should be subject to the law and held to account, and there should be oversight to make sure they do.
"law and order" = we should not question force used against "scary people".

[GaryK]

Favoritism is with regard to any particular faction. In this society white supremacy has a long and storied history and shared identify. To deny that is historically, indefensible in my mind. Again I spoke to this in more depth in the video I did earlier.

Being no respecter of persons is the same as not showing favoritism. In this society we favor white culture. We prefer it. Our systems were built that way. We have conversely marginalized people of color...we prefer them in prison. We built it that way.

I'm not disputing that US history has terrible things in it that favored white culture. My question is: when the NT speaks of the sins of favoritism and being respecters of persons is it speaking about within wordly power structures/societies or within the NT Kingdom?

The message is for anyone who will "hear" the good word. Further, if you haven't please read Keeshon Washington's essays online regarding racism/favoritism also within the CA community. He is a school teacher, FBEP alum, that works at Tidings of Peace, a very conservative CA school in York. And when you do...if you take a learning stance, you may find yourself moving on some points.

Or read any number of CA facebook comments and we quickly see racism isn't something just relegated to "the world." Favoritism needs to be called out in the church as well.

Although I'm not on social media that much, I am appalled at things being said on social media within CA and ex CA circles. Much of what is being said mirrors the ideologies of the political/worldly systems of our day, both right and left. What I'm trying to understand is your use of biblical terms to argue for what, on its face, looks like a political/worldly ideology. Are these biblical terms used in the NT in the context of correcting worldly systems or correcting something within Christianity? If what you are after is correcting what's wrong within the CA realm regarding assimilating political/worldly ideologies then I'm with you to the extent that you are disavowing all political/worldly ideologies.

I want to know what not being guilty of favoritism or being a respecter of persons looks like as defined by Jesus and the Apostles, not by a political/worldly ideology.

[Dan Z]

I want to know what not being guilty of favoritism or being a respecter of persons looks like as defined by Jesus and the Apostles, not by a political/worldly ideology.

Amen Gary - for those of us choosing to reject American political ideologies as compatible with the way of Christ, this is the key question.