Crisis of Faith among Anabaptists?

[Ernie]

Ms. Izzie wrote:

Tightly knit communities in which members look to one another for identity, and to establish meaning and value, are disabled and often dangerous, however polished their veneer. -Marilynne Robinson

What do you think of this statement?

I think I have seen this first hand in many Anabaptist communities.

Do you care to elaborate?

I'm currently trying to hire a 30 year old school teacher whose 70 year old parents would not permit her to teach school for us because we are too liberal or worldly.
Another 30 year single meets with my wife regularly for prayer. She wants to join our church but her 65 year old parents will not permit her to do so because we are not conservative enough.
Both ladies are of age and can do what they like, but they don't want to deal with the ire of their parents and relatives.
(I can identify with this as I went through the same thing at 30 years old.)
For these ladies and their parents, the issue is not about whether Christian women should cover their heads, or even how much to cover their heads, but on whether churches should require the traditional kapp or allow a hanging veil.

Tonight the brothers at our church had a long discussion on whether it is important to have an identifying label other than "Anabaptist Christian". When people ask our senior brother what church he is part of, he feels at a loss because the only thing he can say is something generic like "Anabaptist" or "Christian". He feels at sea if he can't say Beachy, or conservative Brethren, or Amish-Mennonite, or something more than just "Anabaptist". His wife suggested that perhaps we could call ourselves "Kingdom Pilgrims". Then we would have a label. The need for identity is strong!

Another senior brother said he does not know of any unaffiliated Anabaptist mission churches that stayed conservative so he thinks we should become "affiliated".

I was chairing a monthly meeting earlier today of about 25 Anabaptist men (probably one of the most diverse conservative Anabaptists teams there are). Toward the end of the conversation one brother said, "I would like to caution against replacement theology. We are not Jews. We should view Jews as our siblings. I know the Bible says... but...."

These are just five things that I was involved in today. I could cite more examples from today.

I've been a participant in these kinds of things now for about 10,950 days. For the 5840 days before this, I was immersed in this and absorbed much of this by osmosis. It took me at least 5840 days after the first 5840 days to sort out the wheat from the chaff. Since then I continue to do finer screening and try to help others to do the same as I have opportunity.

[Ernie]

With that said, I feel divided between a church that, say, ordains lesbian ministers who hold pet-blessing liturgies.

Between what and what?

[joshuabgood]

...Still where is the compelling CA vision? I see FBEP working that direction and really love what they are doing...

Can you give me five points of your Anabaptist vision?

While I am not quite in the same place, as he is on a few things, I find the articulation by Palmer Becker, most completely as stated his Anabaptist Essentials book (2017)(though the precursor essay can be found free online), the most compelling. And it is a primary text we use here at EMS to discuss the Anabaptist vision. It is readable and in laymen's terms. (We also use Bender's paper, though that is less accessible.) Becker elucidates three key ideas.

1) Jesus is the center of our Faith. Therefore Christianity can only be talked about in the context of discipleship. Therefore all scripture is interpreted through the person and practice of Jesus. Therefore Jesus is Lord/President and we belong to another kingdom (we aren't loyal to a pagan nation-state).

2) Community is the center of our Life. Therefore forgiveness between each other (horizontal) is essential and is key in how we access vertical forgiveness.Therefore the scriptures and our practice are discerned in community rather than individually or by the "authorities." Therefore members are known and held accountable through teamwork/brotherhood.

3)Reconciliation is the center of our Work. Therefore we work to reconcile people to God. We work to reconcile members to each other. We work to reconcile conflicts in the world.

That is the essence of it in short...but there are many other great angles. Including moving away from "programs" based churches to fellowship/small groups based churches. (Similar to what Boyd would argue for.) Also the focus asking for forgiveness for specific sins (rather than just some ethereal original sin) is expounded on. As well as the truth that blessed are the merciful for they shall be shown mercy. We access grace by giving grace.

It avoids arguments about things like "the atonement" or "predestination" or other "approaches to the Eucharist" or modes of baptism etc.

I highly recommend this book. (The one caveat that some may find off-putting is he would belong to the "egalitarian" camp with regard to genders and this is apparent in the some of his quotes - though he doesn't push it in the book).

[Ernie]

Palmer Becker, most completely as stated his Anabaptist Essentials book (2017)

1) Jesus is the center of our Faith. Therefore Christianity can only be talked about in the context of discipleship. Therefore all scripture is interpreted through the person and practice of Jesus. Therefore Jesus is Lord/President and we belong to another kingdom (we aren't loyal to a pagan nation-state).

2) Community is the center of our Life. Therefore forgiveness between each other (horizontal) is essential and is key in how we access vertical forgiveness.Therefore the scriptures and our practice are discerned in community rather than individually or by the "authorities." Therefore members are known and held accountable through teamwork/brotherhood.

3)Reconciliation is the center of our Work. Therefore we work to reconcile people to God. We work to reconcile members to each other. We work to reconcile conflicts in the world.

That is the essence of it in short...but there are many other great angles. Including moving away from "programs" based churches to fellowship/small groups based churches. (Similar to what Boyd would argue for.) Also the focus asking for forgiveness for specific sins (rather than just some ethereal original sin) is expounded on. As well as the truth that blessed are the merciful for they shall be shown mercy. We access grace by giving grace.

This is good! I want to read the book.

[Ms. Izzie]

1) Jesus is the center of our Faith. Therefore Christianity can only be talked about in the context of discipleship. Therefore all scripture is interpreted through the person and practice of Jesus. Therefore Jesus is Lord/President and we belong to another kingdom (we aren't loyal to a pagan nation-state).

2) Community is the center of our Life. Therefore forgiveness between each other (horizontal) is essential and is key in how we access vertical forgiveness. Therefore the scriptures and our practice are discerned in community rather than individually or by the "authorities." Therefore members are known and held accountable through teamwork/brotherhood.

3)Reconciliation is the center of our Work. Therefore we work to reconcile people to God. We work to reconcile members to each other. We work to reconcile conflicts in the world.

Are these three points different than what Anabaptists are doing now? If so, how is what they're doing different than this?
These questions are for anybody who cares to answer.

[Ken]

1) Jesus is the center of our Faith. Therefore Christianity can only be talked about in the context of discipleship. Therefore all scripture is interpreted through the person and practice of Jesus. Therefore Jesus is Lord/President and we belong to another kingdom (we aren't loyal to a pagan nation-state).

2) Community is the center of our Life. Therefore forgiveness between each other (horizontal) is essential and is key in how we access vertical forgiveness. Therefore the scriptures and our practice are discerned in community rather than individually or by the "authorities." Therefore members are known and held accountable through teamwork/brotherhood.

3)Reconciliation is the center of our Work. Therefore we work to reconcile people to God. We work to reconcile members to each other. We work to reconcile conflicts in the world.

Are these three points different than what Anabaptists are doing now? If so, how is what they're doing different than this?
These questions are for anybody who cares to answer.

I expect the difference is largely in degree of emphasis, not that traditional Anabaptist groups would disagree with those points. For example, the mainstream Mennonite Confession of Faith has 24 separate articles of faith. Not every one receives equal emphasis in day-to-day life or in a congregation.

[barnhart]

... Becker elucidates three key ideas.

1) Jesus is the center of our Faith. Therefore Christianity can only be talked about in the context of discipleship. Therefore all scripture is interpreted through the person and practice of Jesus. Therefore Jesus is Lord/President and we belong to another kingdom (we aren't loyal to a pagan nation-state).

2) Community is the center of our Life. Therefore forgiveness between each other (horizontal) is essential and is key in how we access vertical forgiveness.Therefore the scriptures and our practice are discerned in community rather than individually or by the "authorities." Therefore members are known and held accountable through teamwork/brotherhood.

3)Reconciliation is the center of our Work. Therefore we work to reconcile people to God. We work to reconcile members to each other. We work to reconcile conflicts in the world.

I like this, but they are general enough that few would disagree. I imagine most Anabaptist groups would sign on, even those who you mentioned lack "compelling vision".

That is the essence of it in short...but there are many other great angles. Including moving away from "programs" based churches to fellowship/small groups based churches. (Similar to what Boyd would argue for.) Also the focus asking for forgiveness for specific sins (rather than just some ethereal original sin) is expounded on. As well as the truth that blessed are the merciful for they shall be shown mercy. We access grace by giving grace.

This may cause more sparks than the previous three points and has more potential for pointing out a way forward.

[Wade]

1) Jesus is the center of our Faith. Therefore Christianity can only be talked about in the context of discipleship. Therefore all scripture is interpreted through the person and practice of Jesus. Therefore Jesus is Lord/President and we belong to another kingdom (we aren't loyal to a pagan nation-state).

2) Community is the center of our Life. Therefore forgiveness between each other (horizontal) is essential and is key in how we access vertical forgiveness. Therefore the scriptures and our practice are discerned in community rather than individually or by the "authorities." Therefore members are known and held accountable through teamwork/brotherhood.

3)Reconciliation is the center of our Work. Therefore we work to reconcile people to God. We work to reconcile members to each other. We work to reconcile conflicts in the world.

Are these three points different than what Anabaptists are doing now? If so, how is what they're doing different than this?
These questions are for anybody who cares to answer.

I think this describes pretty closely what I see in most Anabaptist's I have contact with. One seeker friend who has been attending the local CA church a bit said these people are nothing like Mennonites - he's been told the negatives his whole life and because of giving the chance of getting close he is seeing things with new perspective.

But I know many people who are scared to get close, don't see it whatsoever and stand back and scoff... sadly.

[Josh]

With that said, I feel divided between a church that, say, ordains lesbian ministers who hold pet-blessing liturgies.

Between what and what?

I’m saying I cannot see a “universal” church beyond denominational boundaries that includes absolutely anyone. I don’t feel in fellowship with the ECLA Lutherans, for the above example (they have churches that do the above).

This is in response to Ken complaining that we have barriers and walls between denominations.

[joshuabgood]

... Becker elucidates three key ideas.

1) Jesus is the center of our Faith. Therefore Christianity can only be talked about in the context of discipleship. Therefore all scripture is interpreted through the person and practice of Jesus. Therefore Jesus is Lord/President and we belong to another kingdom (we aren't loyal to a pagan nation-state).

2) Community is the center of our Life. Therefore forgiveness between each other (horizontal) is essential and is key in how we access vertical forgiveness.Therefore the scriptures and our practice are discerned in community rather than individually or by the "authorities." Therefore members are known and held accountable through teamwork/brotherhood.

3)Reconciliation is the center of our Work. Therefore we work to reconcile people to God. We work to reconcile members to each other. We work to reconcile conflicts in the world.

I like this, but they are general enough that few would disagree. I imagine most Anabaptist groups would sign on, even those who you mentioned lack "compelling vision".

That is the essence of it in short...but there are many other great angles. Including moving away from "programs" based churches to fellowship/small groups based churches. (Similar to what Boyd would argue for.) Also the focus asking for forgiveness for specific sins (rather than just some ethereal original sin) is expounded on. As well as the truth that blessed are the merciful for they shall be shown mercy. We access grace by giving grace.

This may cause more sparks than the previous three points and has more potential for pointing out a way forward.

Well look...I can't rewrite the book. I boiled it down =). Also not every place is like NYC. I can tell you the notion of Jesus Christ being the final authority rather than "the scriptures," and that "the Word of God" is not a book, is quite provocative in many CA circles. I can also tell that the idea of real church group membership and group scriptural discernment is unheard of in evangelical circles, and many CA's also have the mindset that "I decide" what the scripture means and how it is applied. Further the notion the Jesus is President of a real kingdom is a far stretch from where most CA's and evangelicals are. And the notion of attaining forgiveness through forgiveness, and attaining salvation by suffering and dying like Jesus did (as opposed to the "finished work") is quite provocative in most circles.