Mark Gooch-Arrested for the murder of Sasha Krause

[Ken]

Great... now his family is going to be pestered endlessly...

I hope he doesn't get the death penalty, but if he does, maybe he will repent first.

Does it really matter to us what happened to her underwear?



Do we really need to find every little morsel about this? isn't it enough that justice will be served? do we need to dig up all his Mennonite connections and where his family is? his past perversions? all the juicy rumors?

Can't we let the secular world do this? why should we be involved in this? Obviously there is rumors flying through the Mennonite chain and that is disgraceful and if you are involved in spreading gossip on his family connections or his relationships with Mennonites shame on you.
Let the officials do that and let the families release what they will. If it turns out she was raped and I hear that from Mennonite gossip...
This can't be justified as a protection of the innocent child from a possible child predator. This is sin.
I have no intention of responding or reading anything further on here about Sasha or Mark. I'm assuming there will be people that mock my thoughts or justify themselves. Let God judge you.

It will become relevant if it turns out his FAMILY knew he had psychopathic or murderous tendencies and did nothing. Since it appears that the suspect himself wasn't any kind of church member, I'm not sure what his parent's church or religion has to do with anything. Unless they were involved in some sort of treatment of, or cover-up for, a troubled young man. And Sasha Krause was 27 so this is a case of a sexual predator, not a child predator. Assuming there was a sex crime at all, which I'm not sure has been documented.

[Josh]

Let’s not jump to conclusions. The charges are already very serious - let’s see what happens as the trial plays out. This is exactly what the state is instituted by God for.

[Soloist]

My wife actually wanted to add something.

If it's important for the trial, it is easy enough to get in touch with the authorities and make sure they know it. Chances are, the trial will be public just like any other big trial. Otherwise, it's just gossip, and unfruitful for anything other than destruction. Imagine if this was your brother or son and how devastating it would be even without all the gossip chain. The Bible specifically says not to hold the sins of the father against the son, or the sins of the son against the father. Give the family the benefit of the doubt and lift them (and their son) up in prayer.

[Aurien]

Great... now his family is going to be pestered endlessly...

I hope he doesn't get the death penalty, but if he does, maybe he will repent first.

Does it really matter to us what happened to her underwear?



Do we really need to find every little morsel about this? isn't it enough that justice will be served? do we need to dig up all his Mennonite connections and where his family is? his past perversions? all the juicy rumors?

Can't we let the secular world do this? why should we be involved in this? Obviously there is rumors flying through the Mennonite chain and that is disgraceful and if you are involved in spreading gossip on his family connections or his relationships with Mennonites shame on you.
Let the officials do that and let the families release what they will. If it turns out she was raped and I hear that from Mennonite gossip...
This can't be justified as a protection of the innocent child from a possible child predator. This is sin.
I have no intention of responding or reading anything further on here about Sasha or Mark. I'm assuming there will be people that mock my thoughts or justify themselves. Let God judge you.

There are ugly things that happen in this world. If you don't wish to hear about them then you have the choice to not read this thread or anything else posted online about Sasha or Mark. I would appreciate though if you didn't comment on my thread and imply that this is all about juicy gossip. I purposely tried to stick to only known facts and not speculate. Any information given is information that's been confirmed by two or more people.

I don't know if you've seen a photo of him but his eyes look empty and lost. Some people see a psychopathic killer when they look at his photo. I see a young man who's been badly hurt in life and desperately needs Jesus. I too hope that if he gets the death penalty that he comes to Jesus before he dies.

[Aurien]

Great... now his family is going to be pestered endlessly...

I hope he doesn't get the death penalty, but if he does, maybe he will repent first.

Does it really matter to us what happened to her underwear?



Do we really need to find every little morsel about this? isn't it enough that justice will be served? do we need to dig up all his Mennonite connections and where his family is? his past perversions? all the juicy rumors?

Can't we let the secular world do this? why should we be involved in this? Obviously there is rumors flying through the Mennonite chain and that is disgraceful and if you are involved in spreading gossip on his family connections or his relationships with Mennonites shame on you.
Let the officials do that and let the families release what they will. If it turns out she was raped and I hear that from Mennonite gossip...
This can't be justified as a protection of the innocent child from a possible child predator. This is sin.
I have no intention of responding or reading anything further on here about Sasha or Mark. I'm assuming there will be people that mock my thoughts or justify themselves. Let God judge you.

It will become relevant if it turns out his FAMILY knew he had psychopathic or murderous tendencies and did nothing. Since it appears that the suspect himself wasn't any kind of church member, I'm not sure what his parent's church or religion has to do with anything. Unless they were involved in some sort of treatment of, or cover-up for, a troubled young man. And Sasha Krause was 27 so this is a case of a sexual predator, not a child predator. Assuming there was a sex crime at all, which I'm not sure has been documented.

His family's church connection is only relevant when it comes to how he might have known Sasha or people in the Farmington community.
The Facebook rumor mill says he hated Mennonites. I don't know if that's true or not. I've seen social media comments that say some people are just born psychopaths. I don't know if that's true. Maybe some people are born like that. I personally don't think that Mark Gooch was born so evil that it was inevitable that he would kill someone. His path was ultimately his choice, but I wonder what he might have experienced in life that influenced him to choose this path. If there was something he experienced as part of being raised Mennonite that helped influence his bad choices, then what was it and is there a way to prevent other young people from going down the same path?

Standard Disclaimer: I'm not trying to bash Mennonites in my above paragraph or paint them all with a broad brush or blame them for any and every choice Mark made.

[ABC 123]

While I agree gossip is not ok, the Mennonite connection is relevant on this forum and in Mennonite circles. Given the rarity if this type of crime in Mennonitedom, it surprised me there was even a link.

If it turns out there was any sort of rejection from within the culture toward someone coming in, that is not something to just brush off.

Most people tend to just simply walk away from Mennonite people if given the cold shoulder, not go on murderous vendettas.

That his family and hers had both voluntarily joined the Mennonite church is interesting.

As was mentioned, time will reveal the details.

[Josh]

I think it's relevant to avoid engaging in crass discrimination for or against people because of their ethnic background.

In this case, both the victim and the accused suspect are of the same ethnic background (based on my understanding of their last names). They also have the same ethno-religious background. Most crimes like this tend to be between people in the same ethnic and even ethno-religious group. Crimes across ethnic boundaries are comparatively rare.

It does not matter whether someone had become a church member or was out of the church or something like that. From any outsider's perspective, if your family grew up in the Mennonite church and raised you there, you're of a "Mennonite person". Current church membership is something we may understand, but outsiders don't really see much of a distinction.

Let's also be respectful of the rights of the accused. This young man will have to stand trial. He does not appear to be escaping justice in any way. There's no need for any of us to pile onto this and say nasty things, such as I am observing elsewhere on social media.

[Ken]

It does not matter whether someone had become a church member or was out of the church or something like that. From any outsider's perspective, if your family grew up in the Mennonite church and raised you there, you're of a "Mennonite person". Current church membership is something we may understand, but outsiders don't really see much of a distinction.

Church membership is kind of a technicality. Conservative Mennonite and Amish society is far more pervasive than that. Children brought up in such conservative settings are not given a meaningful choice. They are educated in strictly controlled Mennonite or Amish schools and their access to the outside world is strictly controlled. And those who wish to leave are often ostracized (shunned) which is a form of psychological violence. So yes, if you are raised in that environment you are culturally a "Mennonite person" regardless of whether you actually ever become a church member.

That said, I don't know if any of that was the case here. Or if it was in any way relevant to this case. But to raise a child 24/7 cloistered within conservative Mennonite society with no meaningful access to the outside world, and then claim "he/she is not one of us because he/she was not a member" is wrong and hypocritical.

In any event, both the victim and accused are adults. So the entire trial process is going to be a public affair, open to the media. If people are curious (and they are likely to be) then it will all come out anyway.

[Ernie]

But! Alas! When someone within our/their own fold falls into sin or gets caught in criminal activity, the response is "it's a private/internal matter" and "cannot be shared or discussed." Or my favorite: he/she had "failed in an area" and is "getting counsel."

I would not call a member of the military “in our fold” in any fair estimation. That sheep left.

J.M.

Like it or not, he’s an ethnic Mennonite, even if he isn’t one in terms of religion.

I find this comment interesting Josh. I'm wondering how you define ethnic Mennonite?

[Judas Maccabeus]

I would not call a member of the military “in our fold” in any fair estimation. That sheep left.

J.M.

Like it or not, he’s an ethnic Mennonite, even if he isn’t one in terms of religion.

I find this comment interesting Josh. I'm wondering how you define ethnic Mennonite?

Since I started this, it seems, I will comment.

It may be a distinctive feature of my church or conference, but I have heard my bishop many times talk about the need for young people having a clear testimony of conversion before being baptized or received into the church. It is by no means automatic. He has made it consistently clear that it really does not matter who your parents are, those who can trace their ancestry back to Zurich are no different to those who can trace their linage...nowhere. I have found the behavior of leadership consistent with that principle.

When someone leaves, and resigns their membership, they are no longer mennonite. I have heard friends refer to relatives as not mennonite, since they are not members of any mennonite church.

That deemphasis on the ethnic nature of the Mennonite experience may have been what attracted me to my current church and conference.

J.M.