Judging the Church

[KingdomBuilder]

This can be a really iffy one for a lot of people-

"For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12-13‬

What does this verse mean to you?
How/ when should we apply this & how should we not?

[gcdonner]

I will wait to see other replies before posting.

[KingdomBuilder]

I will wait to see other replies before posting.

Looks like you'll be waiting for, oh, forever

[gcdonner]

I will wait to see other replies before posting.

Looks like you'll be waiting for, oh, forever

There are several illustrations of judging in the church.
Just to get things started:

2Th 3:14  And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 
15  Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. 

This admonition had a specific time context, but the principle is universal, but what does it mean to "have no company with him" if he is still to be admonished as a brother? Is this speaking of excommunication and shunning as the Amish practice it, or?

[KingdomBuilder]

I can't say that I can see total excommunication/ shunning as "[admonishing] him as a brother". That seems more like admonishing him as an enemy.
Would it be fair to say that "have no company with him" could be viewed as an instruction of sorts of the admonishing? In other words, to admonish, have no company with him.
Am I correct in interpreting that you believe such admonishings are to be temporary?

[gcdonner]

I can't say that I can see total excommunication/ shunning as "[admonishing] him as a brother". That seems more like admonishing him as an enemy.
Would it be fair to say that "have no company with him" could be viewed as an instruction of sorts of the admonishing? In other words, to admonish, have no company with him.
Am I correct in interpreting that you believe such admonishings are to be temporary?

Gal_6:1  Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2Co_5:18  And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19  To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

However, it seems that some churches put more weight on the following injunctions:

Rom 16:17  Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 

1Co 5:5  To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 

Note this judgment is not for condemnation, which some seem to forget. We are always to work redemptively, are we not?

1Ti 1:19  Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: 
20  Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

 
In both of the above passages, the ultimate goal is restoration, reconciliation and redemption.
I believe in reconciliation unless it is rejected entirely, but even then would not consider the person lost or an enemy. Committing such a situation into God's hands seems the best course of action to me. Sometimes "mature christians" can be very hurtful, destructive and contrary to the work of God in another person's life, while wielding what they believe to be their spiritual authority, don't you think?
I have experienced these things from both sides... it has never been pleasant or easy from my perspective.

[KingdomBuilder]

Sometimes "mature christians" can be very hurtful, destructive and contrary to the work of God in another person's life, while wielding what they believe to be their spiritual authority, don't you think?
I have experienced these things from both sides... it has never been pleasant or easy from my perspective.

I agree completely. I think a good helping of humility is necessary for properly admonishing a brother.
Very good points and scripture- I'm starting to understand it.

[gcdonner]

Sometimes "mature christians" can be very hurtful, destructive and contrary to the work of God in another person's life, while wielding what they believe to be their spiritual authority, don't you think?
I have experienced these things from both sides... it has never been pleasant or easy from my perspective.

I agree completely. I think a good helping of humility is necessary for properly admonishing a brother.
Very good points and scripture- I'm starting to understand it.

Now if we can get some other folks to chime in.
Matthew 18 is also a good source for judging or as I prefer to think of it as "discerning". Remember the word "judge" has several usages in the NT.

[silentreader]

Sometimes "mature christians" can be very hurtful, destructive and contrary to the work of God in another person's life, while wielding what they believe to be their spiritual authority, don't you think?
I have experienced these things from both sides... it has never been pleasant or easy from my perspective.

I agree completely. I think a good helping of humility is necessary for properly admonishing a brother.
Very good points and scripture- I'm starting to understand it.

Now if we can get some other folks to chime in.
Matthew 18 is also a good source for judging or as I prefer to think of it as "discerning". Remember the word "judge" has several usages in the NT.

I'm not sure that I have worthwhile input on this and I'm working on a different passage so I don't want to get involved in this right now, But I think verses 12&13 need to be considered in the context of the whole chapter.

[temporal1]

Sometimes "mature christians" can be very hurtful, destructive and contrary to the work of God in another person's life, while wielding what they believe to be their spiritual authority, don't you think?
I have experienced these things from both sides... it has never been pleasant or easy from my perspective.

I agree completely. I think a good helping of humility is necessary for properly admonishing a brother.
Very good points and scripture- I'm starting to understand it.

Now if we can get some other folks to chime in.
Matthew 18 is also a good source for judging or as I prefer to think of it as "discerning". Remember the word "judge" has several usages in the NT.

you guys are doing such good job.

this thread reminds of another recent one, the question of, what is the NT response?
Does scripture support praying "against" evil? -
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=62

it also reminds of an occasional question on MD about how some (Anabaptists) treat their enemies more graciously and forgivingly than "their own," often referring to the practice of shunning.
this was on MD, but, esp in the past, most churches, possibly all churches, had their forms of shunning. it was not just the Amish In the past.
2 Peter 3:9
http://biblehub.com/2_peter/3-9.htm

The Day of the Lord
…8Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice:
With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

9The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief.
The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be dissolved in the fire, and the earth and its works will not be found.…

"not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
powerful.