The CAM scandal links and assorted other topics thread

[I Timothy]

I think they are moving toward a solution, it would go far better for them if they got outside help. I am praying that they do.

J.M.

The need to utilize skilled medical services (vs merely looking to a Christian organization or church to set a broken leg) is realized and practiced without hesitation. However, there appears to be a reluctance to embracing the equally necessary obligation of recruiting appropriately trained professional investigative services to offer impartial insights into an intangible kind of brokenness that lasts a lifetime.

CAM has a hard time recruiting and hiring appropriate trained staff in many of their locations. I have seen RN's act as MD's trying to adjust patients seizure medicines. I have seen a truck driver act as their drug purchasing agent (buying obsolete drugs, distributing expired drugs). I have seen EMT's try to diagnose and treat. I have seen 10th grade educated men as act social workers. I am not sure CAM looks for trained professionals, trained professionals wouldn't put up with the conditions CAM creates.

This is not solely CAM's fault, this is a creation of the culture CAM was created from. Do you really think the farmer that takes penicillin for himself that he bought from the vet is going to care that CAM has a LPN trying to be a PCP for diabetes patients? Do really think a culture that has allowed sex abuse to grow is going to put pressure on CAM to rid itself of this monster?

Again, there are probably areas that CAM can do ok in. Their talent pool is known for being good at construction and raising food.

[ABC 123]

This is not solely CAM's fault, this is a creation of the culture CAM was created from. Do you really think the farmer that takes penicillin for himself that he bought from the vet is going to care that CAM has a LPN trying to be a PCP for diabetes patients? Do really think a culture that has allowed sex abuse to grow is going to put pressure on CAM to rid itself of this monster?

Again, there are probably areas that CAM can do ok in. Their talent pool is known for being good at construction and raising food.

CA are almost proud of eschewing proper education and training. Our ways are better, and who needs a degree for that??

CA, unfortunately, can be under the deception that what we have pushed to the forefront matters and what other people value more does not.

I have heard of stories of people kicked off CAM stateside disaster clean up projects because the person smoked. CAM cared about it reflecting badly on their brand. I have heard of people (girls mostly) sent home for wearing the wrong thing. Oh the ironies.

[Grace]

I have seen RN's act as MD's trying to adjust patient’s seizure medicines.

That probably was because there was no MD available and the patient needed the medication adjusted. What would be your solution to no MD being available? Would you let the patient suffer, when an RN IS available who can adjust the medication?

I have seen EMT's try to diagnose and treat

.

Again, there is a good chance there was no doctor available.

I have seen 10th grade educated men as act social workers.

Were there educated social workers readily available?

I am not sure CAM looks for trained professionals, trained professionals wouldn't put up with the conditions CAM creates.

Aside from the whole Jeriah Mast mess, Could you be more succinct on what those conditions are, that CAM creates?

This is not solely CAM's fault, this is a creation of the culture CAM was created from. Do you really think the farmer that takes penicillin for himself that he bought from the vet is going to care that CAM has a LPN trying to be a PCP for diabetes patients?

And your solution is what? When there is no PCP available let the diabetes patient go into shock and possibly die?

[Grace]

CA are almost proud of eschewing proper education and training. Our ways are better, and who needs a degree for that??

I don't know where you are from but the area I live in (Lancaster, PA.) That statement is NOT true. When you make blanket statements about conservative Anabaptist's, you are speaking about ALL of them.

This thread is turning into distortions and gross exaggerations.

[Wade]

CA are almost proud of eschewing proper education and training. Our ways are better, and who needs a degree for that??

I don't know where you are from but the area I live in (Lancaster, PA.) That statement is NOT true. When you make blanket statements about conservative Anabaptist's, you are speaking about ALL of them.

This thread is turning into distortions and gross exaggerations.

Yup. And those people that want to motivate a third party investigation I believe are in fact convincing that not to happen with such untrue statements too....

[Grace]

Nevermind. Changed my mind.

[I Timothy]

And your solution is what? When there is no PCP available let the diabetes patient go into shock and possibly die?

My solution? Find properly qualified and credentialed employees. Believe it or not, the countries CAM operates in are not void of talent and human resources. And in fact, there are life lessons we could learn ourselves from the talent in the countries that CAM operates.

[queserasera_2]

I served in CAMs clinic at a level above my education. Yes, there were doctors in town, but i had better education than they did and medications available at no cost. The "real" doctors were 4hrs away by bus.... It was us or no doctor at all for most.

[appleman2006]

I served in CAMs clinic at a level above my education. Yes, there were doctors in town, but i had better education than they did and medications available at no cost. The "real" doctors were 4hrs away by bus.... It was us or no doctor at all for most.

Thank you Queserasera 2 for giving me a real life example here to make the point I have wanted to make for a few day.
Your example gives a real good case for why being armchair quarterbacks is not usually real wise or real effective. I hesitated to share this because I am not wanting to come across in anyway as defending CAM. As I have stated before I think there are huge issues that need to be dealt with not the least of which is that IMO they really need to seek outside counsel and possibly a total audit and it must come from outside our circles. And I have shared these concerns directly with them in a fairly lengthy letter. I would urge others to do the same.
My concern with some of the stuff I see on here is that it is obviously not real well thought out and I am afraid that they may use some of this as a way of passing off any advice they get as being trivial and not really worth listening to.
Some of us are angry, maybe even a bit bitter. But if we really are interested in being part of the solution, a bit of humility and love on our part may go a long way.
Again I am not making light of valid concerns and I am not even saying you are wrong to air them here. I am simply suggesting there is a right and a wrong way to do it. IMO Truth seeker and a number of others have exhibited a right way to us.

Blessings and continued prayer.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I served in CAMs clinic at a level above my education. Yes, there were doctors in town, but i had better education than they did and medications available at no cost. The "real" doctors were 4hrs away by bus.... It was us or no doctor at all for most.

You are reflecting the common experience of all who have served in medical missions. My wife, a nurse, had to transport a neonate that urgently needed heart surgery to the coast.....her specialty.....public health. It was her or no one. It went fine. I could go on and on.

There is always medical care, if you have the money, and the ability to travel. If not, we will do the very best we can, the very best. Sometimes that is all there is.

J.M.