Global Warning/Climate Change

[MaxPC]

If this is how the scientific community functions, we all need to be aware and careful.

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Science has always been politicized for various reasons. Some scientists like Galileo stood by their findings in spite of persecution. Some cave in to political pressure to qualify for grant money. Nothing new in this broken and sinful human history.

[Robert]

I found a few things in here interesting. It is a pretty long listen with few theatrics. The strongest point I think they make is the need for contrary views in the research.

[video][/video]

[Robert]

1000 ppm co2 would be a good thing.

[video][/video]

[Robert]

https://bongino.com/climate-related-dea ... ince-1932/

In the decade from 2004 to 2013, worldwide climate-related deaths (including droughts, floods, extreme temperatures, wildfires, and storms) plummeted to a level 88.6 percent below that of the peak decade, 1930 to 1939.2 The year 2013, with 29,404 reported deaths, had 99.4 percent fewer climate-related deaths than the historic record year of 1932, which had 5,073,283 reported deaths for the same category.

[Ken]

https://bongino.com/climate-related-dea ... ince-1932/

In the decade from 2004 to 2013, worldwide climate-related deaths (including droughts, floods, extreme temperatures, wildfires, and storms) plummeted to a level 88.6 percent below that of the peak decade, 1930 to 1939.2 The year 2013, with 29,404 reported deaths, had 99.4 percent fewer climate-related deaths than the historic record year of 1932, which had 5,073,283 reported deaths for the same category.

I clicked through to article that you linked. Utter rubbish.

The peak "climate-related" death year according to the data is 1932. Are there any Mennonites' here who remember the significance of that year? Here's a hint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor Raise of hands for who here thinks these deaths were due to "climate" and not Stalin?

The 1920s and 1930s also saw several famines in China that killed millions. Yes, climate was a factor, but the Chinese famines were all human-caused in that it was the utter failure of the Chinese state to deal with droughts. The American Great Plains had similar droughts during the dust bowl but didn't see millions die because the US had a functional state and economy, even during the height of the great depression. China was a collapsing ancient imperial dynasty that was so dysfunctional it was ripe for picking by the Japanese in the 1930s and then by Mao and the communists in the 1940s.

The big blip on the "climate deaths" graph ends in 1943. What happened in 1943 to spike "climate deaths?" The Bengal Famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 which was deliberately caused by the British Government as part of their scorched earth policy in their war against the Japanese in neighboring Burma. The British Army as it was retreating from Bengal in advance of an anticipated Japanese invasion (that never happened) confiscated and destroyed rice stocks all across the region and also destroyed the river transportation system of boats used for food transport. The Japanese never invaded but millions of Bengali died in the resulting famine.

Yes the period from the 1920s to the 1940s saw tens of millions of deaths, mainly due to famine and starvation. But to cite these deaths as an argument for climate change denial is just obscene. These were all human-caused famines and in the case of Stalin, outright genocide.

[Robert]

Not sure it is rubbish. Kind of a hard response.

This is pulled form an international database.

[Ken]

Not sure it is rubbish. Kind of a hard response.

This is pulled form an international database.

Sure, and guns killed tens of millions of people from 1939-1945. Would you cite that statistic as an argument for banning firearms in the US in 2019?

Using statistics that mainly show deliberate human-caused genocidal famines from the 1920s to 1940s as some kind of argument for climate-change denial in 2019 is equally specious and made in equally in bad faith*.

*Not you Robert, I'm talking about Matt Palumbo, the author of the article you cited who used the 1932 Ukraine famine data and the 1943 Bengal famine data as part of his climate-change denial argument.

[Robert]

I'm talking about Matt Palumbo, the author of the article you cited who used the 1932 Ukraine famine data and the 1943 Bengal famine data as part of his climate-change denial argument.

Not sure where you are getting this information. I see nowhere where it adds in the deaths you are talking about.

The chart shows "Floods, droughts, storms, wildfire, extreme temps." If you have evidence that these are not where the numbers come from, please present it.

[Ken]

I'm talking about Matt Palumbo, the author of the article you cited who used the 1932 Ukraine famine data and the 1943 Bengal famine data as part of his climate-change denial argument.

Not sure where you are getting this information. I see nowhere where it adds in the deaths you are talking about.

The chart shows "Floods, droughts, storms, wildfire, extreme temps." If you have evidence that these are not where the numbers come from, please present it.

The dataset used in the original Cato Institute article is the EMDAT database from the Centre for Research on the Epidemiology of Disasters (CRED). You can find it here: https://www.emdat.be/

This is not a climate database, it's a database of all natural and technological disasters since 1900 in which at least 10 people died. All of the famine-related disasters of the 1920s through the 1940s in Ukraine, China, India, and elsewhere are categorized as climate-related in this database in that they were famines caused by droughts and crop failures. Even though the millions of deaths that resulted were largely due to deliberate human actions not climate.

So yes, that really big blip on the Cato institute graph from the 1920s to 1943 cited by Palumbo is largely accounted for by the famines in Ukraine, China, and India that were largely human-caused. Yes there were climate-related crop failures around the world in the 1930s. But the actual famine deaths that resulted were largely human-caused. Either deliberate as in the case of the Holodomor and Bengal famine, or due more to institutional failure and war in the case of China.

The US and Australia also experienced the same droughts during this time period as they were a global phenomenon. But the US and Australia didn't see famines with millions of deaths because they were functioning societies with functional governments and economies that actually worked to alleviate suffering not deliberately make it worse.

[Robert]

All of the famine-related disasters of the 1920s through the 1940s in Ukraine, China, India, and elsewhere are categorized as climate-related in this database in that they were famines caused by droughts and crop failures. Even though the millions of deaths that resulted were largely due to deliberate human actions not climate.

Not seeing any validation of this on the site, but I am not saying you are wrong. I just can not find validation.

Even if you are correct, we are still seeing a reduction of deaths from natural disasters. Some is because of earlier warning, better technology, and better search, rescue, and response once something does happen. So the concept of the article is correct. There are fewer deaths now. This could change, but currently, climate is not causing massive deaths.

So it is not rubbish, but realistic. Again, something massive could happen, but it also could not happen. We can not see into the future, but can only predict using current trends. Current trends show a reduction of deaths from natural disasters.