Bill Gothard?

[Dan Z]

Denny Kenaston was MUCH more apt to preach about Jesus, though.

Yes! In that regard Bro. Denny was more of an Anabaptist - Bill spent a lot (too much) of his time in Old Covenant forms and constructs. Looking back I can now see clearly his "flat bible" hermeneutic that failed to properly privileged Christ and the New Covenant.

[MaxPC]

Interesting thread. I have not heard of either Gothard or Kenaston before. At least that I recall.

[steve-in-kville]

Interesting thread. I have not heard of either Gothard or Kenaston before. At least that I recall.

It was this or another thread about food. I'm saving that one for tomorrow

[Dan Z]

Interesting thread. I have not heard of either Gothard or Kenaston before. At least that I recall.

You missed all the fun Max.

[Ms. Izzie]

Gothard framed many human relationships in authority and submission. Whoever had the biggest umbrella was the winner and needed to be listened to because God had decreed it to be so. I have seen material in our circles with the same umbrella system pictured and also have heard sermons using umbrella language.

(If you don't know about the umbrellas, I don't think you are missing too much. Umbrellas aren't a very strong protection against the elements.)

Although submission is in the NT, it is often spoken of as a mutual submission, and isn't heavy on who has authority in the given relationship.

[MaxPC]

Although submission is in the NT, it is often spoken of as a mutual submission, and isn't heavy on who has authority in the given relationship.

True. Yet there is the family hierarchy addressed as well.

[Ms. Izzie]

I think it is better to frame our relationships in love and submission, rather than authority and submission. Jesus is our example for this. Although He had authority (He was God), He did not count it as something to be grasped, instead He humbled Himself in love for us. We love Him because He first loved us. He showed us He loves us because He gave His life for us.

My husband has taught me the most about this-- by his example.

[Dan Z]

I think it is better to frame our relationships in love and submission, rather than authority and submission. Jesus is our example for this. Although He had authority (He was God), He did not count it as something to be grasped, instead He humbled Himself in love for us. We love Him because He first loved us. He showed us He loves us because He gave His life for us.

My husband has taught me the most about this-- by his example.

Your marriage is rooted on a firm foundation Ms Izzie. Thanks for sharing this important life lesson.

[appleman2006]

I attended both seminars early in my teens. My dad was a healthy skeptic and the result was some good dialogue and it drove me deeper into scripture study and excellent dialogue with my parents.

Overall the impact on my life was positive. I did observe a lot of negative impacts from many who followed blindly without the healthy skepticism. So I can't hate on the material, but I don't promote it either.

Wow this could almost have been written by me. we must share more than just the name. My Dad too was a healthy sceptic particularly on the way Gothard taught authority issues. A half life time later I am convinced that those teachings have had more of a negative influence on the Anabaptist church then we would like to admit at times.

[appleman2006]

I think it is better to frame our relationships in love and submission, rather than authority and submission. Jesus is our example for this. Although He had authority (He was God), He did not count it as something to be grasped, instead He humbled Himself in love for us. We love Him because He first loved us. He showed us He loves us because He gave His life for us.

My husband has taught me the most about this-- by his example.

I really really like this Ms. Izzie. In fact with your permission I would like to use it in a talk I am giving this Sunday on a related topic.