Hebrew Hyperbole

[Robert]

I suspect you're right. And perhaps they would be cultures further from our own.

Mostly because one culture usually borrows or builds on another. Some remote cultures will not build on it, but may have developed it from ancient connections or natural human expressions. A smile is a natural human expression. While differing cultures may express it more or less, it has been found to be pretty universal and actually hard wired in.

[Neto]

Further, physical expressions will vary culturally while the core emotions of the individuals do not.

You don't know that. And you're just repeating yourself.

You make these absolute statements as though they were scientifically proven. When I point out that scientists hotly debate them, you just repeat the same statement without addressing what I said. I think it's important to ask ourselves "Is this true? How can I find out?" I also think it's important to realize that sometimes we just don't know and can't easily know. That's what basic humility looks like when discussing facts.

I think that it would depend on how the phrase "core emotions" is defined. About the people with whom we lived, I have often said "They are people just like us - for example, they love their children, and want to provide for them." I have told one of my friends there things which I have never told anyone else. We often talked about our dreams (real dreams, not 'ambitions'), and they were surprisingly similar.

There are basic values which are universal in the sense that they are things written on the human heart by God; in a sense, they are the things that make us 'human'. When we men would go out some place to carry back the meat from a tapir they had killed we would always rest up a bit just before we came out of the trail into view of the people in the village. (Wanting to look like we weren't really so tired we were about to drop.) No one ever said, "Hey, let's rest here a bit so we don't look tired when we walk out onto the airstrip, so the women will be impressed." It is just the way things were done. That's human nature, and that seems to be pretty universal. (But of course my exposure to other cultures is really pretty limited - I have actually only been a part of a few.) A visiting (missionary) anthropologist presented a paper to us once, outlining how even though a given culture may reject some of these God-ordained universals, you will still find indications of an underlying awareness of it through folk-lore or satire. They will have jokes (like mother-in-law jokes in Western societies) or stories where they poke fun at their own cultural mores - the ones that violate the universals. (This sort of thing would of course not be well received by the anthropological world as a whole, including by our own anthropology department head. He had documented his findings from a number of tribal societies, both in North & South America, but of course not every human society in the world.)

[MaxPC]

I think that it would depend on how the phrase "core emotions" is defined. About the people with whom we lived, I have often said "They are people just like us - for example, they love their children, and want to provide for them." I have told one of my friends there things which I have never told anyone else. We often talked about our dreams (real dreams, not 'ambitions'), and they were surprisingly similar.

There are basic values which are universal in the sense that they are things written on the human heart by God; in a sense, they are the things that make us 'human'. When we men would go out some place to carry back the meat from a tapir they had killed we would always rest up a bit just before we came out of the trail into view of the people in the village. (Wanting to look like we weren't really so tired we were about to drop.) No one ever said, "Hey, let's rest here a bit so we don't look tired when we walk out onto the airstrip, so the women will be impressed." It is just the way things were done. That's human nature, and that seems to be pretty universal. (But of course my exposure to other cultures is really pretty limited - I have actually only been a part of a few.) A visiting (missionary) anthropologist presented a paper to us once, outlining how even though a given culture may reject some of these God-ordained universals, you will still find indications of an underlying awareness of it through folk-lore or satire. They will have jokes (like mother-in-law jokes in Western societies) or stories where they poke fun at their own cultural mores - the ones that violate the universals. (This sort of thing would of course not be well received by the anthropological world as a whole, including by our own anthropology department head. He had documented his findings from a number of tribal societies, both in North & South America, but of course not every human society in the world.)

Exactly. Spot on.

Academics are sometimes the most emotional and defensive about their research because they've invested their self-worth in the opinions of others/peers: not that different from trying to look impressive to the women after a tapir hunt

Your missionary anthropologist created a perfectly reasonable research paper and those academics who had reputations based upon an opposing model will do their best to intimidate, derogate and in general engage in attacks to delegitimize his work. Territorialism isn't just the purview of politicians and tribal chiefs

[temporal1]

This thread, Page 1:

As one who loves to study and watch other cultures, I do find this in many and I can not think of a major culture that does not use it. I am sure there may be a few minor cultures that do/did not use it. I suspect they would be the exception, not the rule.

[From] Gilgamesh and Beowulf forward, we have found hyberbole. Most stories carry it as a tool. Before most cultures were literate, they had to memorize things. Hyberbole and many other structural tools were used to aid in this.

Here is an example.
I walked into the woods and a branch bumped me in the head.
Who will really remember that?

Walking into the dark foreboding forest, I turned and was struck by a branch that appeared out of nowhere, as if some unseen hand wielded it to gain my attention.

The hyberbole is a tool to gain attention and visualize an experience. Once visualized, it aids in memorization. Oral cultures use many story telling tools to pass on the morals, principles, and culture to others. Both sentences are true, but one is memorable while the other is not. One would be retold while the other is not.

I was once told that one theory about the NT was the stories we have were the ones worth dying for.
We do not hear about Jesus waking up, getting breakfast, cleaning he clothes and washing his face. Reason is they were not worth dying for, since multiple times in the early church history, persecution drove the narrative. Why pass on a story not worth telling if you would die from it? Pass on the important things.

It also forced the tellers to craft it in a way that it could b remembered orally and it passed something important to the hearer. I would not want to die telling someone about Jesus waking up to do mundane things. I would be willing to tell the story of his death and resurrection though.

This does not make the story wrong or untrue, but told in a way that, one would impart memorization, and two would pass on a deeper meaning.

We have to remember that all scripture, new and old, were carried orally for a time, some hundreds of years, before getting written down. They had to be told in a way that it would be remembered. They did not have the luxury of going back and reading it again.

i appreciate everything you've noted here. it's logical to human understanding.
it can be accepted by believers and non-believers. it can be accepted in academia and in churches.

i would like to add one thought.
Adam has recently posted some interesting words about the Holy Spirit.

i'm a little frustrated right now, because i can't immediately remember specific passages i'm remembering. i agree with george, it is best to cite scriptures. the passages i'm thinking of are well-known, if anyone cares to help out here, it would be welcome.

i'm remembering passages that tell us there is no understanding - without the Holy Spirit.

i believe scriptures are more-than folk tales or myths, which have also been brought forward over time. i also believe the oral history that existed before scriptures were written, before literacy was (taken for granted) .. was the work of the Holy Spirit. that if all written words suddenly vanished, the Holy Spirit would continue Truth.

i agree with Adam, the Holy Spirit is fairly ignored, due to abuses, but, scriptures tell us to believe in the Holy Spirit, to trust it, to seek answers from it.

i am not worthy to speak on it. but, i can support Adam's interest, and agree on the importance.

there are numbers of sublime passages:
1 Corinthians 2:10
But God has revealed it to us by his Spirit, for The Spirit searches into everything, even the depths of God.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are the Temple of God, and that The Spirit of God dwells within you?

Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh, but in The Spirit, if truly The Spirit of God dwells within you, but if a man does not have The Spirit of The Messiah in him, this one does not belong to Him.

James 4:5
And perhaps you think the Scripture says in vain, “The spirit that dwells within us lusts with jealousy.”

John 14:26
“But he, The Redeemer of the accursed, The Spirit of Holiness, whom my Father sends in my name, he will teach you all things and he will remind you of everything whatsoever I have told you.”


humankind has the potential to abuse/exploit every thing, tangible and not.
if we allow human failure to determine all outcomes, we would not be able to get out of bed each morning. because of the Holy Spirit we have hope on earth, Jesus promised the help of the Holy Spirit.

from reading scriptures, elementary as i am, i believe Truth will prevail over all, no matter temporal circumstances; not due to our human efforts, but by the grace of the Holy Spirit which cannot be contained or quantified.

when Franklin asks, "how can Christianity survive?" -
in my understanding, by the work of the Holy Spirit.

[Aaron]

Maybe someone has some more examples? Or some advice on knowing how to identify hyperbole in the NT?

"If your right hand causes you to sin....."

"...whoever shall say 'you fool' shall be in danger of hell."

Yet this (both) is true, also..... if any part of anyone's thoughts even, feelings, desires, or parts of their life, is a cause to lead them on the wide path to destruction,

it is better to get rid of that thought, feeling, desire, part of their life

instead of to be resurrect to eternal judgment, right ?

[Aaron]

I have not looked into this recently, but as far as I know, this was totally true :

==================================================================
QUOTE (from opening page) :
"I agree with that. I see that also in Jacob's complaint to Laban:

....you changed my wages ten times....(Genesis 31:41)


-which is not literally true according to the text.
=====================================================================


(albeit the translation to "ten" may conceivably be a different number? .....)

I thought , old memory, that that "ten" is an accurate rendering how many times his wages were changed.....