Princeton Prof Eddie Glaude - on racial issues

[joshuabgood]

Obama was a big step backwards for any black person not born yet.

I’m not sure how you can be such a consistent cheerleader for Democrats, Josh, particularly when they are the architects of the greatest slaughter of black people America has ever seen through abortion.

I am against abortion. Obama was a step forward in that a black man was elected to the highest office in the land. I am apolitical.

[GaryK]

Obama was a big step backwards for any black person not born yet.

I’m not sure how you can be such a consistent cheerleader for Democrats, Josh, particularly when they are the architects of the greatest slaughter of black people America has ever seen through abortion.

I am against abortion. Obama was a step forward in that a black man was elected to the highest office in the land. I am apolitical.

I think what Josh is saying is that the political party that consistently supports your views on modern racism is the same party that promotes what is arguably one of the worst forms of racism found in America today - abortion. And I'd speculate that the majority of individuals who are not politicians but promote the modern racism theories you espouse are firmly behind the racist abortion industry. By their fruits you shall know them. Could these racism theories being promoted be a smokescreen for a larger, more political, agenda is a question worth exploring. I question if one can objectively separate the politics out of this discussion?

[Bootstrap]

I think what Josh is saying is that the political party that consistently supports your views on modern racism is the same party that promotes what is arguably one of the worst forms of racism found in America today - abortion.

I question if one can objectively separate the politics out of this discussion?

You are saying we cannot be against abortion and also be against racism because the moral positions that really count involve loyalty to political parties?

If not, I don't understand what you are saying. If so, I disagree strongly. And if we want to have a Christian world view, thinking about morality directly without worrying about the political parties seems pretty important.

I think the bible cares both about the unborn and people in marginalized groups. I think we should too.

[GaryK]

I think what Josh is saying is that the political party that consistently supports your views on modern racism is the same party that promotes what is arguably one of the worst forms of racism found in America today - abortion.

I question if one can objectively separate the politics out of this discussion?

You are saying we cannot be against abortion and also be against racism because the moral positions that really count involve loyalty to political parties?

If not, I don't understand what you are saying. If so, I disagree strongly. And if we want to have a Christian world view, thinking about morality directly without worrying about the political parties seems pretty important.

I think the bible cares both about the unborn and people in marginalized groups. I think we should too.

My point is that what is arguably one of the worst forms of racism today (abortion) is never discussed in either political or academic circles. If it was discussed in these circles as vigorously as the modern racism theories, how would that affect these theories and how would that change how everyone views racism in general? If you are suggesting that politics is not involved in how most people view racism, I strongly disagree.

[joshuabgood]

Obama was a big step backwards for any black person not born yet.

I’m not sure how you can be such a consistent cheerleader for Democrats, Josh, particularly when they are the architects of the greatest slaughter of black people America has ever seen through abortion.

I am against abortion. Obama was a step forward in that a black man was elected to the highest office in the land. I am apolitical.

I think what Josh is saying is that the political party that consistently supports your views on modern racism is the same party that promotes what is arguably one of the worst forms of racism found in America today - abortion. And I'd speculate that the majority of individuals who are not politicians but promote the modern racism theories you espouse are firmly behind the racist abortion industry. By their fruits you shall know them. Could these racism theories being promoted be a smokescreen for a larger, more political, agenda is a question worth exploring. I question if one can objectively separate the politics out of this discussion?

It's irrelevant to me what "the political party" supports. I am apolitical. I am on record calling abortion the worst genocide ever waged on humanity. And as such, abortion clearly indicates the moral depravity of the USA. It also aptly illustrates the speciousness of the moral superiority of western civilization or the "judeo-christian" world-view. The USA is a pagan state in the same vein as other pagan states that committed genocide. And yes, abortion of babies who are black, are an effect of systemic racism dating back to Margaret Sanger et al.

Hopefully that clears that up. We are in agreement there. What we are discussing is the places where we don't see it the same. Also if you haven't, please see the recent PEW research I cited.

[GaryK]

I am against abortion. Obama was a step forward in that a black man was elected to the highest office in the land. I am apolitical.

I think what Josh is saying is that the political party that consistently supports your views on modern racism is the same party that promotes what is arguably one of the worst forms of racism found in America today - abortion. And I'd speculate that the majority of individuals who are not politicians but promote the modern racism theories you espouse are firmly behind the racist abortion industry. By their fruits you shall know them. Could these racism theories being promoted be a smokescreen for a larger, more political, agenda is a question worth exploring. I question if one can objectively separate the politics out of this discussion?

It's irrelevant to me what "the political party" supports. I am apolitical. I am on record calling abortion the worst genocide ever waged on humanity. And as such, abortion clearly indicates the moral depravity of the USA. It also aptly illustrates the speciousness of the moral superiority of western civilization or the "judeo-christian" world-view. The USA is a pagan state in the same vein as other pagan states that committed genocide. And yes, abortion of babies who are black, are an effect of systemic racism dating back to Margaret Sanger et al.

Hopefully that clears that up. We are in agreement there. What we are discussing is the places where we don't see it the same. Also if you haven't, please see the recent PEW research I cited.

I remember 2 times you encouraged me to bring politics into my interactions or discussions with blacks. How is that being apolitical?

I don't doubt what the Pew research shows. My point is that politics and probably a bigger agenda has played a huge role in shaping peoples views on racial issues.

[Bootstrap]

My point is that what is arguably one of the worst forms of racism today (abortion) is never discussed in either political or academic circles.

Most of the time, that's basically the same thing as saying "I don't want to discuss racism. Let's discuss abortion instead!"

If it was discussed in these circles as vigorously as the modern racism theories, how would that affect these theories and how would that change how everyone views racism in general?

I think the academic language on racism is pretty far removed from the way most non-academic people think and feel. Personally, I would rather pay attention to the stories of real people. If we are asking what affects modern black people the most, I am also less interested in the last 400 years than I am in the last 30 or 50. And there's a whole lot of relevant stuff to discuss there.

My frustration is that it seems very difficult to get many people to treat the experiences of minorities as valid. It often seems like a whole lot of the vigor in these vigorous discussions is an attempt to shut down the conversation.

If you are suggesting that politics is not involved in how most people view racism, I strongly disagree.

I agree. Sometimes politics is a driver, sometimes people's felt experience leaks into politics.

[GaryK]

My frustration is that it seems very difficult to get many people to treat the experiences of minorities as valid. It often seems like a whole lot of the vigor in these vigorous discussions is an attempt to shut down the conversation.

I don't know if this is directed at me but if this is how you think I treat experiences of minorities and these discussions then I am doing a very poor job of communicating my thoughts.

[joshuabgood]

Gary,

I think discussing the impact of politics (ie the election of Donald Trump) or legalization of abortion is distinct from embracing politics as a "change agent" for salvation of society.

I don't believe I have recommended or encouraged you to try and get people to embrace the pagan state or political process. Speaking truth to power, in my view, is part of what Christians should do. So yes, I think we need not be apologetic about calling Southern politicians to pull down their idols. If we don't engage politically, we have the freedom to make these calls and confrontations absent the partisan baggage from either side. I can not be accused of being a Democratic supporter or a Republican because I am not a party member and don't participate in the political process. I can freely challenge whomever.

I don't see that as political engagement. Hope that helps...

[Bootstrap]

My frustration is that it seems very difficult to get many people to treat the experiences of minorities as valid. It often seems like a whole lot of the vigor in these vigorous discussions is an attempt to shut down the conversation.

I don't know if this is directed at me but if this is how you think I treat experiences of minorities and these discussions then I am doing a very poor job of communicating my thoughts.

No, that was not directed at you.