CAM Molestation Issue

[RZehr]

I too understand what Hats Off and others are saying. These are legitimate considerations. And I have no doubt that CAM wrestles with this exact same conversation. They probably have within their leadership people representing both sides of this compensations conversation, and they probably arrived at this number carefully. They probably have people thinking it is still to low, and some thinking it is to high.

As far as not wanting donations to go to them because of high wages, I think we should really think about how much of my donation is actually affecting the cause. What if the next organization pays their top earner only $24,000 but other inefficiencies eat up more? But yes, there is a point where I (all of us) would feel that someone is overpaid.

I don't think that they are being paid to much, and while I don't know what their foreign missionaries are paid, I was at one of the missions this spring when a couple of their top guys happened to visit. I wasn't in the meetings, but I do know that one of the things they asked was whether the missionaries were able to pay their expenses on their salaries, and if they needed more etc. So I know they are not trying to skin the volunteers in order to save money. I got the feeling that they do think about these things, they do care about their people.

[Aurien]

I too understand what Hats Off and others are saying. These are legitimate considerations. And I have no doubt that CAM wrestles with this exact same conversation. They probably have within their leadership people representing both sides of this compensations conversation, and they probably arrived at this number carefully. They probably have people thinking it is still to low, and some thinking it is to high.

As far as not wanting donations to go to them because of high wages, I think we should really think about how much of my donation is actually affecting the cause. What if the next organization pays their top earner only $24,000 but other inefficiencies eat up more? But yes, there is a point where I (all of us) would feel that someone is overpaid.

I don't think that they are being paid to much, and while I don't know what their foreign missionaries are paid, I was at one of the missions this spring when a couple of their top guys happened to visit. I wasn't in the meetings, but I do know that one of the things they asked was whether the missionaries were able to pay their expenses on their salaries, and if they needed more etc. So I know they are not trying to skin the volunteers in order to save money. I got the feeling that they do think about these things, they do care about their people.

At first I wanted to be all upset that David Troyer is paid over 100,000 a year. Then I went to Charity Watch and compared some charities with similar budgets as CAM and realized that most CEO's get 200,000 or more. There were a couple of charities who had $0 listed for the CEO but I didn't examine them to see whether or not their CEO's have another job outside of the charity.
I understand why some people are uncomfortable with the amount of money that top CAM people are paid. I grew up in a family that lived below the poverty level so when I compare 8 people living on 35,000 or less per year to the salaries that the top people at CAM get then it does seem like they're paid a lot of money.

Does anyone know what their foreign missionaries get paid? I think someone on Facebook said CAM pays better than other charities.

[Aurien]

I too understand what Hats Off and others are saying. These are legitimate considerations. And I have no doubt that CAM wrestles with this exact same conversation. They probably have within their leadership people representing both sides of this compensations conversation, and they probably arrived at this number carefully. They probably have people thinking it is still to low, and some thinking it is to high.

As far as not wanting donations to go to them because of high wages, I think we should really think about how much of my donation is actually affecting the cause. What if the next organization pays their top earner only $24,000 but other inefficiencies eat up more? But yes, there is a point where I (all of us) would feel that someone is overpaid.

I don't think that they are being paid to much, and while I don't know what their foreign missionaries are paid, I was at one of the missions this spring when a couple of their top guys happened to visit. I wasn't in the meetings, but I do know that one of the things they asked was whether the missionaries were able to pay their expenses on their salaries, and if they needed more etc. So I know they are not trying to skin the volunteers in order to save money. I got the feeling that they do think about these things, they do care about their people.

At first I wanted to be all upset that David Troyer is paid over 100,000 a year. Then I went to Charity Watch and compared some charities with similar budgets as CAM and realized that most CEO's get 200,000 or more. There were a couple of charities who had $0 listed for the CEO but I didn't examine them to see whether or not their CEO's have another job outside of the charity.
I understand why some people are uncomfortable with the amount of money that top CAM people are paid. I grew up in a family that lived below the poverty level so when I compare 8 people living on 35,000 or less per year to the salaries that the top people at CAM get then it does seem like they're paid a lot of money.

Does anyone know what their foreign missionaries get paid? I think someone on Facebook said CAM pays better than other charities.

I meant to say Charity Navigator not Charity Watch.

[Dan Z]

Not sure about all the Conservative Mennonite missions in Haiti, but the one we were with paid a few hundred dollars per month per family plus living and food expenses, and travel to and from Haiti. We spent about five years in Haiti (two different stints) and basically just-about treaded water financially because our commitments in the US were minimal. If we'd have committed longer-term, to be fiscally responsible we would have needed a different more salary-like financial arrangement.

[Ken]

Not sure about all the Conservative Mennonite missions in Haiti, but the one we were with paid a few hundred dollars per month per family plus living and food expenses, and travel to and from Haiti. We spent about five years in Haiti (two different stints) and basically just-about treaded water financially because our commitments in the US were minimal. If we'd have committed longer-term, to be fiscally responsible we would have needed a different more salary-like financial arrangement.

I did the Peace Corps, not mission work. So I only have that experience. Peace Corps pays all travel expenses to and from your home of record and medical/dental while you are a volunteer. In country you receive a living allowance pegged to the local economy which is supposed to be enough to cover rent, utilities, food, local transportation, and incidentals. Mine was about $500 a month in Guatemala years ago. They did annual surveys in each country to make sure they were paying enough but not too much. Covered my rent, utilities, groceries, and bus fares and the occasional splurge like a movie or dinner out. But was always gone by the end of the month. They also provided vacation pay in US Dollars for every month that you serve that accumulates until you take vacation. That's probably about $50/month which will give you a vacation in the local area or neighboring country but no international flights home. Finally they provide a readjustment stipend when you return. Back in the 80s when I did it we received about $5500 at the end of a 2-year service. Today I think it is over $10,000. Basically to get you back and established in the US, pay your first couple months rent, give you some breathing room to find work or start school or whatever. Some volunteers collect this when they leave and just spend 6-9 months traveling the world. Others come straight home and get back to life in the US.

[temporal1]

This current NJ incident might be useful as an object lesson??
Often, we can recognize others’ failures more readily than our own.
The “log in the eye” thing.

“Judge:
Teen rape suspect accused of filming act shouldn't be tried as adult since he's from 'good family,'
could attend 'good college' “
https://www.theblaze.com/news/judge-tee ... b-theblaze

[Sienna]

Sometimes, if a non-profit organization sends a "mission" worker who is a child rapist to oversee a food program, and that worker refuses food to hungry children who didn't want to be raped, and the leader of that organization is making three figures, there aren't any words.

[KirkDaniel]

Sometimes, if a non-profit organization sends a "mission" worker who is a child rapist to oversee a food program, and that worker refuses food to hungry children who didn't want to be raped, and the leader of that organization is making three figures, there aren't any words.

Oooooooo. Ouch.

[DrWojo]

Sometimes, if a non-profit organization sends a "mission" worker who is a child rapist to oversee a food program, and that worker refuses food to hungry children who didn't want to be raped, and the leader of that organization is making three figures, there aren't any words.

CEO is making six figures.

[temporal1]

Sometimes, if a non-profit organization sends a "mission" worker who is a child rapist to oversee a food program, and that worker refuses food to hungry children who didn't want to be raped, and the leader of that organization is making three figures,

there aren't any words.

In the past 3 weeks or so, this forum has collected plenty of words.
which is ok. it’s not “the silence that enables.” this is reason for hope.

This current NJ incident might be useful as an object lesson??
Often, we can recognize others’ failures more readily than our own.
The “log in the eye” thing.

“Judge:
Teen rape suspect accused of filming act shouldn't be tried as adult
since he's from 'good family,'
could attend 'good college' “
https://www.theblaze.com/news/judge-tee ... b-theblaze

the reason i posted this example, which is NOT an identical case, is because it’s ANOTHER case of many that reflects the COMMON RELUCTANCE people (not just Anabaptists or Christians) have to disturb their desired plans to adequately respond to sins-crimes of those they love, or otherwise hold in high esteem.

these sins-crimes are INCONVENIENT to others’ plans. “we” don’t like to be inconvenienced from our beloved plans.

this pattern repeats in every setting, whether secular or Christian.
(i guess) it could be recognized, sin-crimes are a walk away from Jesus Christ.

how could such faithful ones betray Christ?
well, it is written, Jesus Christ was betrayed by His own disciples, while they protested To Him this could never be! Jesus knew better, and He told them so.

(not that my thots matter) but, discussion of money is a distraction from attempting to honestly face the ugly reality of what these sins-crimes do, and how they play out, in every earthly setting.

desire “not to be inconvenienced” seems to be a common denominator.
that’s very-very hard to face. esp when facing actual real life victims. victims ARE HURT. others are only afraid of being (“hurt,” actually, inconvenienced).

JMast must face consequences. he really hurt numbers of real life boys.
that’s in process, somehow. the U.S. legal system is not perfect by any means. other countries’ legal systems are not perfect. time will tell. (not that my thots matter) but, i wonder if he will ultimately be treated as harshly as Ken Miller? he may not be.

it’s difficult, but, attending to perpetrators is not as difficult as facing how perpetrators were enabled by those trusted and respected. this is the harder part.

it’s the weak link in the chain that is possible to change, if change is seriously desired.
for Christians, it’s repeat of the Christ-loving disciples who betrayed Christ, anyway.

Page 10 / http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 8&start=90

Could this flow from some of the unique theology in Charity churches? I am trying to get my head around this.
I suspect in my circles, he would have been sent to the authorities as soon as this came to light.
I may be wrong here, never seen anything like this.
J.M.

I want to be cautious of claiming this, because it happens in other very different theological settings.

One thing is for certain:
adopting Charity types of belief systems does nothing to stop abuse.

Also, Page 10:

i wrote:
It’s unnerving to think, a few years ago, when appleman wrote about preventive measures in his fellowship, JMast must have been actively abusing children in Haiti.

There is a pattern to how these situations develop. There has got to be a way out.
Scriptures promises a way out. God’s way out:

1 Corinthians 10:13
https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/10-13.htm

..
12 So the one who thinks he is standing firm should be careful not to fall.

13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man.
And God is faithful; He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear.
But when you are tempted, He will also provide an escape, so that you can stand up under it.

14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.…

i take these words as a PROMISE.
in my life, i pray for the Holy Spirit to guide me, esp based on this promise.