CAM Molestation Issue

[RZehr]

Go back and read what I actually said. Gay men may not be anymore likely to be pedophiles than straight men. I didn’t insinuate that. I’m not talking about risk. Yes is is pedophilia.
But I do consider a male raping a male to be a homosexual action, yes.
Just as I consider a male raping a girl to be a heterosexual action.
Both are wrong. Rape is wrong. Child abuse is wrong. Homosexual behavior is wrong.

We are perhaps talking about semantics. But the people who study this sort of thing would say that pedophilia is a separate sexual orientation that is neither gay nor straight. It is attraction for prepubescent children. And the great majority of pedophiles who abuse boys do not in fact identify as gay, and are not attracted to men. they generally identify as straight with a predilection for children. Which appears to be the case with JM as well.

Do the people who study this sort of thing believe that homosexuality is wrong? Could it be that they are, as so much of society is, working at making homosexual acceptable?
Why didn't JMast molest or rape any girls (that we know of)? I consider him to be a homosexual pedophile rapist (if all we have been told is true).
While I'm not equating pedophilia with homosexuality, I'm not ready to accept the idea that pedophilia is really that separate or removed from our base inclinations (homo, hetero). I'd have to be convince of it.

The two homosexual men that I'm nearest to, were both 1. molested as children by men and 2. molested male children. When found out, they both left the church and openly live as homosexuals.
That is not to say only homosexual men molest children. I know of two men sitting in prison that molested their daughters. But what I don't see is homosexual men molesting little girls. Does that happen? If not, why not?

[Aurien]

Go back and read what I actually said. Gay men may not be anymore likely to be pedophiles than straight men. I didn’t insinuate that. I’m not talking about risk. Yes is is pedophilia.
But I do consider a male raping a male to be a homosexual action, yes.
Just as I consider a male raping a girl to be a heterosexual action.
Both are wrong. Rape is wrong. Child abuse is wrong. Homosexual behavior is wrong.

We are perhaps talking about semantics. But the people who study this sort of thing would say that pedophilia is a separate sexual orientation that is neither gay nor straight. It is attraction for prepubescent children. And the great majority of pedophiles who abuse boys do not in fact identify as gay, and are not attracted to men. they generally identify as straight with a predilection for children. Which appears to be the case with JM as well.

Do the people who study this sort of thing believe that homosexuality is wrong? Could it be that they are, as so much of society is, working at making homosexual acceptable?
Why didn't JMast molest or rape any girls (that we know of)? I consider him to be a homosexual pedophile rapist (if all we have been told is true).
While I'm not equating pedophilia with homosexuality, I'm not ready to accept the idea that pedophilia is really that separate or removed from our base inclinations (homo, hetero). I'd have to be convince of it.

The two homosexual men that I'm nearest to, were both 1. molested as children by men and 2. molested male children. When found out, they both left the church and openly live as homosexuals.
That is not to say only homosexual men molest children. I know of two men sitting in prison that molested their daughters. But what I don't see is homosexual men molesting little girls. Does that happen? If not, why not?

What ideas do you have regarding men who molest both boys and girls?

[RZehr]

They are committing both homosexual and heterosexual crimes. I’d be curious if that is more or less common than a pedophile sticking with one gender.
JMast may have been molested as well.

[Ken]

Go back and read what I actually said. Gay men may not be anymore likely to be pedophiles than straight men. I didn’t insinuate that. I’m not talking about risk. Yes is is pedophilia.
But I do consider a male raping a male to be a homosexual action, yes.
Just as I consider a male raping a girl to be a heterosexual action.
Both are wrong. Rape is wrong. Child abuse is wrong. Homosexual behavior is wrong.

We are perhaps talking about semantics. But the people who study this sort of thing would say that pedophilia is a separate sexual orientation that is neither gay nor straight. It is attraction for prepubescent children. And the great majority of pedophiles who abuse boys do not in fact identify as gay, and are not attracted to men. they generally identify as straight with a predilection for children. Which appears to be the case with JM as well.

Do the people who study this sort of thing believe that homosexuality is wrong? Could it be that they are, as so much of society is, working at making homosexual acceptable?
Why didn't JMast molest or rape any girls (that we know of)? I consider him to be a homosexual pedophile rapist (if all we have been told is true).
While I'm not equating pedophilia with homosexuality, I'm not ready to accept the idea that pedophilia is really that separate or removed from our base inclinations (homo, hetero). I'd have to be convince of it.

The two homosexual men that I'm nearest to, were both 1. molested as children by men and 2. molested male children. When found out, they both left the church and openly live as homosexuals.
That is not to say only homosexual men molest children. I know of two men sitting in prison that molested their daughters. But what I don't see is homosexual men molesting little girls. Does that happen? If not, why not?

I would just point out that it is MUCH MUCH easier for men to have unsupervised access to young boys than little girls. That is the case in both church and secular circles. If you are a single male, try getting a job as a girl scout leader, or a girl's camp counselor, or a teacher at a girl's elementary school, or in the little girls department of a clothing store. That just isn't ever going to happen. In JMs case it appears that he was a boy's school or orphanage of some sort. The chances that he would have been placed in charge of a girl's school or live-in orphanage for little girls seems remote in the extreme. If you are an equal-opportunity pedophile it is almost certainly the case that it will be MUCH MUCH easier to find male targets then female.

That is also why girls who are molested are more commonly the victims of family members rather than strangers. Because they are basically never left alone with strange men. The exception that comes to mind has been in the gymnastics world where male coaches have been placed in positions coaching young girl gymnasts and surprise surprise, the world of gymnastics has encountered these same problems as well.

[RZehr]

True. I'm not trying to be an expert on this subject. I'm mainly saying is that I think people find it super easy to safety condemn things that society agrees is condemnable. And not condemn things that society supports, even though they are wrong. And I consider a male molesting males to be homosexual. It's pretty uncomplicated to me, and I believe our society purposely complicates the issue because of its acceptance.

[Neto]

RE; Access of single men to adolescent women or young girls:
I was a substitute teacher for awhile after I finished college, and between semesters of grad school. I was quite surprised when I was given the responsibility of 'teaching' or supervising the JR High girls' gym class. It did not seem proper to me, but as I recall, I wasn't told what class or classes I would be teaching when I was called in, and it could have been that this was just another responsibility of the teacher whose place I was taking during those several days. (I do not recall the details - it was nearly 40 years ago.)

[Dan Z]

...From all I personally know of the long-term character and commitment of CAM and the men involved in decision-making concerning Jeriah's re-appointment, this is a mistake (yes, a HUGE one) not a conspiracy...

In criminal law, a conspiracy is simply an agreement between two or more people to commit a crime, or to aid and abet in the commission or cover-up of a crime.

Point accepted Ken. However, while I wrote the statement it in the vernacular not the technical...even in a technical sense I honestly don't think there is any evidence that has been put forth that the leaders at CAM conspired to commit a crime or cover up a crime.

[Aurien]

They are committing both homosexual and heterosexual crimes. I’d be curious if that is more or less common than a pedophile sticking with one gender.
JMast may have been molested as well.

I've done more reading than I ever wanted to on the subject of child molestation and it's less common for a pedophile or child molester to go after both genders. There's a distinction between child molesters and pedophiles. To be classed a pedophile someone has to meet certain criteria. I believe you can say all pedophiles are child molesters but not all child molesters are pedophiles.

I've heard as well that Jeriah was molested. It's sad that it happened but it definitely doesn't excuse his actions. Not that I think you're saying that to excuse his actions. It's just that some sex offenders try to use that as an excuse for why they molested rather than taking personal responsibility for their crimes.

[Aurien]

True. I'm not trying to be an expert on this subject. I'm mainly saying is that I think people find it super easy to safety condemn things that society agrees is condemnable. And not condemn things that society supports, even though they are wrong. And I consider a male molesting males to be homosexual. It's pretty uncomplicated to me, and I believe our society purposely complicates the issue because of its acceptance.

You're right. If I posted something on Facebook about child molesters it would be roundly condemned. If I posted something about the sin of homosexuality though I know there are some people on my friends list who would condemn me as being hateful and bigoted.

[Ken]

In criminal law, a conspiracy is simply an agreement between two or more people to commit a crime, or to aid and abet in the commission or cover-up of a crime.

Point accepted Ken. However, while I wrote the statement it in the vernacular not the technical...even in a technical sense I honestly don't think there is any evidence that has been put forth that the leaders at CAM conspired to commit a crime or cover up a crime.

I don’t have any inside knowledge of what happened here. Just what I have read. But if there were people involved at JM’s home church or within CAM who conspired to cover up his actions or brush it under the table then a conspiracy happened.

...And the people involved in this will have to live with it for the rest of their lives whether or not they are ever found guilty of a conspiracy.