Anabaptist Sex Offender Watch List

[Robert]

Grace, your attitude so far is that no information should ever be given. Your approach to these things has led to the disgrace of CAM, massive financial losses form CAM, and to hundreds of victims being abused over the course of decades.

We need as much information as possible, other than naming and shaming victims themselves, and only because that serves no purpose of reconciliation and restoration.

The question needs to be asked why you prefer to keep things in the dark.

I think this is an extreme reaction to her caution and is taking things way past what she has said.

[Robert]

Strategies to Protect Children & Child Ministry Workers:

Things like this need to be looked at much more than a "possible" and known sex offender list.

CA should look at this as a wake up call to building healthy, safe structures and patterns for children. Most are unaware that 25% of females are sexually abused in their lifetime. Most are just silent because of shame and fear of retaliation of friends and family. Anabaptist communities have no better record than the rest of society either.

What is better? Reporting an offender or protecting the victim before it ever happens and saving them from a lifetime of pain and shame? It saves the possible offender from falling so easily into temptation also. Two are saved as opposed to one punished. Jesus came to save. We should do the same.

[Ken]

This may not be the best place to put this, but I don't wish to start a new thread for it.

Strategies to Protect Children & Child Ministry Workers:

In thinking of this, the so-called "Billy Graham Rule" comes to mind, where his strict policy was that he would never be alone with a woman other than his wife. I don't know if it came from him, but in the Bible college Pastoral Ministries course I took before missionary service, we were advised the same way.

So I'm thinking about young men who work with troubled boys in the three boys' camps that our congregation supports. When I started on our congregational missions committee, we resolved to visit as many of our ministry workers as possible. We only got to one place, Bald Eagle Boys' Camp, where a single man from our congregation was serving. I think that all of these ministries operate the same - there is one adult in each cabin group. When I was just out of my first year of college I was a counselor at the Southern District Mennonite Brethren youth camp. I was the only adult in the cabin with a group of boys. Most were "church kids", but at least one was basically a street kid from a big city in Kansas. While I was still in HS, I had been a counselor in a camp for 5-6 grade boys, and there was an older man with me in the cabin with them.

So here's the question: Would it not be wise, in order to protect the boys in these camp programs, who are already from trouble home environments, and also to protect the camp workers from false accusations, to have two workers with every group? But where will these ministries find all of these additional workers? Will this case now make young men willing to do this ministry even more difficult to find, because they will be placed at risk of false accusations if they serve alone?

This is same advice that male teachers are given during teacher training so I'm not sure it is anything Billy Graham invented. When I am teaching, if I happen to have a female student come in before or after school for help, I will make sure that the doors are open to the adjacent classroom where a female teacher works. And sometimes if she is grading papers or something I'll ask her to come do that in my room. Or we'll move over to her room so there is ALWAYS another adult in the room nor within earshot while I'm working with a female student. This sort of thing is teacher training 101. It was drilled into us. NEVER be alone with a female student. In fact we explored all kinds of scenarios. What happens if you are coaching after school and you are left with a girl who doesn't have a ride home? What do you do? Answer: Call an administrator so you can have another adult follow you home or help deal with the situation so you aren't left alone in a car with a girl. This is pretty basic stuff. And frankly, alarm bells should go off if you have adults who are finding excuses to be alone with children who are not their own.

[Szdfan]

A few years ago, I was involved with the Mennonite Abuse Prevention List.

The purpose of this list:

These are Mennonite clergy and lay church workers who are documented as convicted, sanctioned, dismissed, or sued as a result of sexual or domestic abusive actions or behavior. We prioritize the posting of those living to those deceased. The list may also include those church officials and supervisors who have failed to report or been shown to hide from public knowledge such abuse, thus placing other Mennonites under their care at risk of further harm.

The key here is that all the names listed are documented cases and not just allegations. Documentation includes court documents, news articles, etc. I was involved in researching and attempting to obtain documentation for a high profile case at one of the Mennonite colleges, but that individual is not currently listed because we were unable to obtain any documentation. It was extremely frustrating.

There are serious legal issues with posting the names of alleged perpetrators without documentation to support those allegations. Not only do you risk your own credibility, you also run the risk of lawsuits.

I think Trudy's intentions are admirable. I also understand that she's saying her list will not be public, but only shared with law enforcement. I am also concerned that she's making herself extremely vulnerable to lawsuits if the list is ever leaked to the public. I'm concerned that she might damage her credibility if she's not able to support the allegations she's bringing to law enforcement.

Advocacy work on sexual abuse is an extremely sensitive thing and it's possible to cause damage if one isn't careful. I'm grateful that Trudy is bringing light to this issue, I'm also concerned whether her amateur sleuthing might damage the case against Mast rather than help it.

[blackfriar]

A few years ago, I was involved with the Mennonite Abuse Prevention List.

The purpose of this list:

These are Mennonite clergy and lay church workers who are documented as convicted, sanctioned, dismissed, or sued as a result of sexual or domestic abusive actions or behavior. We prioritize the posting of those living to those deceased. The list may also include those church officials and supervisors who have failed to report or been shown to hide from public knowledge such abuse, thus placing other Mennonites under their care at risk of further harm.

The key here is that all the names listed are documented cases and not just allegations. Documentation includes court documents, news articles, etc. I was involved in researching and attempting to obtain documentation for a high profile case at one of the Mennonite colleges, but that individual is not currently listed because we were unable to obtain any documentation. It was extremely frustrating.

There are serious legal issues with posting the names of alleged perpetrators without documentation to support those allegations. Not only do you risk your own credibility, you also run the risk of lawsuits.

I think Trudy's intentions are admirable. I also understand that she's saying her list will not be public, but only shared with law enforcement. I am also concerned that she's making herself extremely vulnerable to lawsuits if the list is ever leaked to the public. I'm concerned that she might damage her credibility if she's not able to support the allegations she's bringing to law enforcement.

Advocacy work on sexual abuse is an extremely sensitive thing and it's possible to cause damage if one isn't careful. I'm grateful that Trudy is bringing light to this issue, I'm also concerned whether her amateur sleuthing might damage the case against Mast rather than help it.

I agree 100% on the amateur sleuthing. I wish someone close to her would communicate that to her in a helpful way.

I also would have no problems with a list, if it's based like you say on documented cases. Even if there is no conviction, I would have no problem with a list of Anabaptist people who have been charged in court with some type of sexual crime. I could see that being very helpful in the right circumstances.

[hillperson]

I messaged her yesterday and pled with her. I did see she changed some things. ( I was bothered by her Stanley Fox blog. I wish she would take it down for various reasons)

She’s going for her doctorate.....so what can I say....

One thing I did get is she’s getting info Haiti side while most of us are viewing it through stateside lenses if that makes any sense.

[Aurien]

A few years ago, I was involved with the Mennonite Abuse Prevention List.

The purpose of this list:

These are Mennonite clergy and lay church workers who are documented as convicted, sanctioned, dismissed, or sued as a result of sexual or domestic abusive actions or behavior. We prioritize the posting of those living to those deceased. The list may also include those church officials and supervisors who have failed to report or been shown to hide from public knowledge such abuse, thus placing other Mennonites under their care at risk of further harm.

The key here is that all the names listed are documented cases and not just allegations. Documentation includes court documents, news articles, etc. I was involved in researching and attempting to obtain documentation for a high profile case at one of the Mennonite colleges, but that individual is not currently listed because we were unable to obtain any documentation. It was extremely frustrating.

There are serious legal issues with posting the names of alleged perpetrators without documentation to support those allegations. Not only do you risk your own credibility, you also run the risk of lawsuits.

I think Trudy's intentions are admirable. I also understand that she's saying her list will not be public, but only shared with law enforcement. I am also concerned that she's making herself extremely vulnerable to lawsuits if the list is ever leaked to the public. I'm concerned that she might damage her credibility if she's not able to support the allegations she's bringing to law enforcement.

Advocacy work on sexual abuse is an extremely sensitive thing and it's possible to cause damage if one isn't careful. I'm grateful that Trudy is bringing light to this issue, I'm also concerned whether her amateur sleuthing might damage the case against Mast rather than help it.

I agree 100% on the amateur sleuthing. I wish someone close to her would communicate that to her in a helpful way.

I also would have no problems with a list, if it's based like you say on documented cases. Even if there is no conviction, I would have no problem with a list of Anabaptist people who have been charged in court with some type of sexual crime. I could see that being very helpful in the right circumstances.

I'm not sure about the idea of a list. It may or may not be a good idea.
How many Anabaptists who have committed sexual crimes are ever taken to court? How many sexual crimes committed by Anabaptists are even reported to the law much less result in them being charged?
Also if someone had been taken to court and hasn't been convicted then putting their name on the list would be even worse than putting the name of someone who has never been charged. That would be opening people up to all kinds of lawsuits (even though Anabaptists reportedly aren't supposed to sue).

[Aurien]

I messaged her yesterday and pled with her. I did see she changed some things. ( I was bothered by her Stanley Fox blog. I wish she would take it down for various reasons)

She’s going for her doctorate.....so what can I say....

One thing I did get is she’s getting info Haiti side while most of us are viewing it through stateside lenses if that makes any sense.

What are the reasons you want her to take down her blog about Stanley Fox?
I don't understand what her going for her doctorate has to do with this.

[hillperson]

I messaged her yesterday and pled with her. I did see she changed some things. ( I was bothered by her Stanley Fox blog. I wish she would take it down for various reasons)

She’s going for her doctorate.....so what can I say....

One thing I did get is she’s getting info Haiti side while most of us are viewing it through stateside lenses if that makes any sense.

What are the reasons you want her to take down her blog about Stanley Fox?

I’m not gonna comment on this besides saying a lot of my concerns have been addressed here on Mennonet.
I don't understand what her going for her doctorate has to do with this

I’m commenting on the amateur comments. I know she does some things that seems amateur but she has a lot of experience and she does have a few years of education under her belt.

[blackfriar]

How many Anabaptists who have committed sexual crimes are ever taken to court? How many sexual crimes committed by Anabaptists are even reported to the law much less result in them being charged?
.

If that's the case, then why put the emphasis on compiling a list vs reporting crimes that happen? that seems to me to be where the focus should be. If crimes happen, they need to be reported.