The Trinity

[KingdomBuilder]

Someone once told me their understanding of the connection between the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. They compared it to water, snow/ice, and vapor. I like thinking of it this way. One can't seriously say that water, ice, and vapor are literally one and the same, but it's certain that they are of the same compound.

In the case of the Father, Son, and Spirit I believe we can all agree that they too are of the same compound- absolute divinity.

[Josh]

Someone once told me their understanding of the connection between the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. They compared it to water, snow/ice, and vapor. I like thinking of it this way. One can't seriously say that water, ice, and vapor are literally one and the same, but it's certain that they are of the same compound.

In the case of the Father, Son, and Spirit I believe we can all agree that they too are of the same compound- absolute divinity.

What you have described is known as Modalism or Sebelianism. Apostolic Pentecostas believe this. Interestingly, the rest of Christendom considers it a heresy, with some of the more theologically rigid groups such as Reformed people claiming that Apostolic Pentecostals or anyone else who believes in Modalism cannot be saved due to their incorrect belief about Jesus.

[KingdomBuilder]

Someone once told me their understanding of the connection between the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. They compared it to water, snow/ice, and vapor. I like thinking of it this way. One can't seriously say that water, ice, and vapor are literally one and the same, but it's certain that they are of the same compound.

In the case of the Father, Son, and Spirit I believe we can all agree that they too are of the same compound- absolute divinity.

What you have described is known as Modalism or Sebelianism. Apostolic Pentecostas believe this. Interestingly, the rest of Christendom considers it a heresy, with some of the more theologically rigid groups such as Reformed people claiming that Apostolic Pentecostals or anyone else who believes in Modalism cannot be saved due to their incorrect belief about Jesus.

Can't say I'm a fan of adding some theological "ism" to try and define everything; I'm certainly far from an apostolic Pentecostal
Not sure if I'd throw an analogy into the "heresy category".
I'm not a fan of trying to define the undefinable- was just stating one way I have heard it.
The man who I heard it throw was an EO-sympathizing fellow, coincidentally.

[Wade]

Someone once told me their understanding of the connection between the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. They compared it to water, snow/ice, and vapor. I like thinking of it this way. One can't seriously say that water, ice, and vapor are literally one and the same, but it's certain that they are of the same compound.

In the case of the Father, Son, and Spirit I believe we can all agree that they too are of the same compound- absolute divinity.

What you have described is known as Modalism or Sebelianism. Apostolic Pentecostas believe this. Interestingly, the rest of Christendom considers it a heresy, with some of the more theologically rigid groups such as Reformed people claiming that Apostolic Pentecostals or anyone else who believes in Modalism cannot be saved due to their incorrect belief about Jesus.

I don't understand or even know of all the politics within Christendom and maybe you are completely right but I am confused why to condemn a person for using a picture from nature to inspire thought about God. Or maybe I just understand it from such a different angle of inspiration rather than doctrine?
Until I met any Mennonites I hadn't met any "Christian's," that had a desire to literally follow Christ. It was looking at nature that was much more inspiring for me to even believe that their is a God. And then when I met Mennonites for the first time it was Holdemans(there is some amazing people at that group). But they mostly all had big new expensive SUV's and big fancy expensive houses, lavish lifestyles is what it seemed like, etc.
I honestly believe, if I couldn't pull from creation to see Him, I wouldn't have. Is that heresy?

[Josh]

I am not a strict Trinitarian and don't care a lot about christology.

I was just pointing out that ice/water/steam is Modalism, and in Eastern Orthodoxy would be serious heresy. The consensus among most of evangelical Christianity is that Apostolic Pentecostals aren't saved because they believe in this instead of orthodox Trinitarianism.

I don't agree with any of this rubbish at all, which is why I'm not generic evangelical nor Eastern Orthodox.

[cmbl]

I don't understand or even know of all the politics within Christendom and maybe you are completely right but I am confused why to condemn a person for using a picture from nature to inspire thought about God. Or maybe I just understand it from such a different angle of inspiration rather than doctrine?
Until I met any Mennonites I hadn't met any "Christian's," that had a desire to literally follow Christ. It was looking at nature that was much more inspiring for me to even believe that their is a God. And then when I met Mennonites for the first time it was Holdemans(there is some amazing people at that group). But they mostly all had big new expensive SUV's and big fancy expensive houses, lavish lifestyles is what it seemed like, etc.
I honestly believe, if I couldn't pull from creation to see Him, I wouldn't have. Is that heresy?

This confuses you because you are interested in literally following Christ, whereas the evangelical Protestants think the most important thing about a person is his theology.

[Valerie]

I don't understand or even know of all the politics within Christendom and maybe you are completely right but I am confused why to condemn a person for using a picture from nature to inspire thought about God. Or maybe I just understand it from such a different angle of inspiration rather than doctrine?
Until I met any Mennonites I hadn't met any "Christian's," that had a desire to literally follow Christ. It was looking at nature that was much more inspiring for me to even believe that their is a God. And then when I met Mennonites for the first time it was Holdemans(there is some amazing people at that group). But they mostly all had big new expensive SUV's and big fancy expensive houses, lavish lifestyles is what it seemed like, etc.
I honestly believe, if I couldn't pull from creation to see Him, I wouldn't have. Is that heresy?

This confuses you because you are interested in literally following Christ, whereas the evangelical Protestants think the most important thing about a person is his theology.

Are you sure about that? You're speaking for a lot of people and that is quite an assumption. But to be clear, the Apostles made 'doctrine' very essential to the faith, not JUST behavior- but evangelical Protestants are 'doing' quite a lot of 'good works' in the world, I learn of them constantly. They are being the hands and feet of Jesus all over the world. Maybe don't quibble about suspenders, plain clothing, etc- but perhaps their emphasis on serving is as important as other Christians? Sorry if I find that statement offensive as I know many evangelicals that are serving the Lord, but maybe not 'plain' in dress.

But doctrine IS important:
for example:
2 John 9: Whoever trangresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine do not receive him into your house or greet him.
Titus 1:9: holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict
and the problem dealing with Arius- the heretic-
Romans 16:17: Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the 'doctrine' which you learned, and avoid them.
2 Timothy 3:16: All Scripture is give by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness that the ma of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Just a handful of passages conveying the importance of sound doctrine-

[Valerie]

Interestingly enough, our Pastor had this message on Christian radio yesterday speaking of this very topic- I happened to be home when it came on- and so was glad to hear his teaching on it and 'why' it is important and 'why' the heresy was addressed and must continue to be addressed-if one has 20 minutes (his messages from Church on Sunday evenings, are broad cast on radio called "Truth for Life" but due to time, they are broken up in several parts but todays message spoke of this topic and should be helpful to listen to)

https://www.truthforlife.org/broadcasts ... t-4-of-6-/

[Josh]

What is the "doctrine of Christ"? If it's his message to love your enemies, blessed are the meek, and to do violence to no one, then evangelical Protestants aren't doing so well.

[cmbl]

Are you sure about that? You're speaking for a lot of people and that is quite an assumption.

The pastor at the SBC church that I attended before coming to Anabaptism said, and I quote, "Paul's thesis in Ephesians is that your theology is the most important thing about you." That was around when I was getting tired of living as if my theology were the most important thing about me, so it sticks out in my mind.

It is true that evangelical Protestantism is really big, so I should be careful not to paint them all with that brush - thank you for the reminder.

But to be clear, the Apostles made 'doctrine' very essential to the faith, not JUST behavior- but evangelical Protestants are 'doing' quite a lot of 'good works' in the world, I learn of them constantly.

I never said they weren't.

They are being the hands and feet of Jesus all over the world. Maybe don't quibble about suspenders, plain clothing, etc- but perhaps their emphasis on serving is as important as other Christians? Sorry if I find that statement offensive as I know many evangelicals that are serving the Lord, but maybe not 'plain' in dress.

I never said anything about plain dress. Remember that the context of my statements was trying to explain why evangelicals condemn a person for using a picture from nature to explain the Trinity (article is satire, but yet representative).

But doctrine IS important...

I never said it wasn't important. I do say it is not the most important.