It was originally about buying this particular car (Neil will not consider a used car anymore).RZehr wrote:Is your question more asking about buying a brand new car? Or is it a question of buying this particular car?
Thank you, maybe reading the article will 'talk me out of it'- I remember the last time they quit making beetles I was so discouraged that I had never bought one- but life goes on- I just have always always been fond of those little bugs- talked myself out of the extra $ for a convertible when I finally did buy one when I was 46- (see how long I waited!) and I was sorry later- as Ragpicker pointed out passing up one option and then regretting it- however it is just a car!PeterG wrote:Just a word of caution. I've spent my entire life around the car enthusiast community, mostly at the edges and sometimes closer to the middle of things. (I once owned a RWD wagon with a diesel and a manual, which will mean something if you've hung around certain corners of the car-enthusiast internet.appleman2006 wrote:If you buy it and take really good care of it this might be a good investment.New cars rarely are but this one might. Maybe not in your lifetime but in the lifetime of you children.
) A car, even a desirable classic car, is virtually never a good investment. This article does a decent job explaining why. Yes, in rare instances people do cash in, but like the article says, "It’s like watching a super-cut of holes-in-one and deciding to try your hand at golf." A personal vehicle should be thought of as a transportation expense, or, in the case of a classic or enthusiast's car, a hobby (usually an expensive hobby). It should never be considered an investment. 20 or 50 years from now a 2019 Final Edition Beetle will probably be worth just marginally more than a 2017 Beetle in the same condition with the same level of equipment, and both will probably be worth considerably less than they originally sold for (adjusted for inflation), even if they're in like-new condition (taking restoration costs into account).
Tough to beat that formula.ragpicker wrote:Green light from God, family, and counselors. Plus the numbers work. That’s a formula I won’t back down from no matter the person’s circumstances.
For what it's worth, here's the best thing I've ever read about choosing a car. (Note that some articles on that website contain profanity, unfortunately.)
I'm paying attention Ragpicker to the really important stuff in the story and working on your forumula. We definitely are not impulsive people- I did pm undershepherd (I miss his posts) I don't know why I thought he was in Canada- his FB reveals he's in Virginia- hm. Will be interesting if/when I hear from him. maybe he will be in the forumula.ragpicker wrote:“You deserve this” - kind wishes that made me cringe after I bought my new truck three years ago.
That said, when I got green lighted by God, my wife, my son, a few counselors, and the numbers to buy my truck, I did add on a few “since I’m getting what will probably be my only new vehicle, I may as well get this” type things. Mostly practical stuff like the larger fuel tank. But also the larger engine which I had rather flimsy arguments for getting. I feel no guilt for that indulgence. It brings me significant enjoyment and to my surprise, it increased my safety. I drive a lot and many times that extra power has allowed me to extract myself from uncomfortable situations. (I hate being in “packs” at highway speeds.) Turns out this power has also been helpful when pulling some larger loads.
In 3 years of driving I’ve put on 94,000 miles now. I haven’t regretted the purchase a single moment. My only possible regret was declining one expensive option, and that only because my circumstances changed. (Moved to Ohio. 4WD might be nice now.)
If you pay attention, the really important stuff is in my story. Green light from God, family, and counselors. Plus the numbers work. That’s a formula I won’t back down from no matter the person’s circumstances. In my case it unexpectedly led to a new vehicle. I ended up changing jobs and suddenly I was very, very happy I made this choice. But when I needed to purchase a car for my wife, the same formula led to a newer used vehicle. At a different time it might lead to a $500 beater. The outcome isn’t the point, the formula is. I haven’t always used it and it led to bad choices.
I highly recommend this approach. And I highly recommend asking advice from Linford Berry if you’re considering anything VW. He’s a big time authority on VW.
PS. Beetles are just plain fun. I know. We bought a bright yellow diesel one. Totaled in a wreck or we would still have it. We replaced it with a gas Passat.
Airbags have been around since 1975, so not much change there. As of last year the only new safety system that lowers insurance rates would apply to would be the Subaru Eyesight System. Unless you get a new Subaru, you won't be saving on insurance for a new car generally. I would definitely get your insurance agent to give you a hard quote before buying. I hear that other brands are coming out with their own Eyesight System because it has been so successful for preventing accidents. If you're looking for both safety and reliability, Subarus are usually rated highly. I would buy one myself if I could find one that was 5-7 years old but it seems their owners like to keep them for a long time.Valerie wrote:
That is true- the safety features they've added to new cars these days, have 'helped' insurance costs though- at least that's what our insurance man told us.
Judas, as an independent VW sales and service specialist I would have to disagree with your advice about the DSG. Other than the early ones (2004-2008) the DSG has been the most reliable transmission that VW or probably anyone else has put in regular production vehicles. We have sold and serviced hundreds of them. The maintenance that you speak of is not really an issue either unless you rely on a VW dealer to service them. At our shop it is $220 for the DSG transmission fluid and filter service. That service is supposed to be done every 40k miles. The conventional automatics need fluid and filter changes every 60k miles and it costs about $180 to do those. I would much rather spend $220 every 40k on a transmission that is as reliable and efficient as the DSG.Judas Maccabeus wrote: Ok, from a person who has had a number of them, as well as a good VW specialist mechanic:
Your "New Beatle" is essentially my two-door golf with a slightly different body. I have had very good results from my VWs. I would suggest you avoid the "DSG" transmission, as it is a maintenance headache, and if you wind up looking for a used one avoid the 2l 8 valve engine as well. I have the 2.5 L 5 cylinder, and it runs nicely, and avoids the issues that turbos can cause. It will get you where you are going to go, with reasonable comfort, and good economy.
As an investment, they will likely make so many of them they will not be rare.
J.M.
Valerie, in answer to your question I would say that in most plain Anabaptist circles buying a new car would not necessarily be considered worldly although in many circles it might be seen as somewhat poor stewardship. However buying a convertible could be considered worldly in many of those same churches. It would help if the car was black or some other dark or neutral color. If you showed up in a red or white convertible that would certainly be worldly. lolValerie wrote:I've love VW Beetles since I was 5 years old-
This is the last year their making them-
Would purchasing (as I have to buy a new car soon, I had a great deal on a lease) a "Final Edition" VW convertible beetle be considered 'worldly'?
Hubby & I were discussing this- we have been looking at the reliable suv's out there now but oh, this bug!! I have a VW presently-I respect their products-
Just wondered- it's funny how we can 'rationalize' things- like I was thinking about when we drive to Holmes County how nice the roofless buggies are for couples as their horse drives them around the countryside
I'm so thankful I was advised to ask the expert- between your message & this, the 'bubble has been burst' on the convertible and since it would be our vehicle there's no way I can park it and not put miles on it- so! I learned a lot on this thread, and thankful for the time & trouble people put into it to share thoughts/encouragements/discouragements & valuable info- as well as opinions that were what I was wrestling through.undershepherd wrote:Valerie, in answer to your question I would say that in most plain Anabaptist circles buying a new car would not necessarily be considered worldly although in many circles it might be seen as somewhat poor stewardship. However buying a convertible could be considered worldly in many of those same churches. It would help if the car was black or some other dark or neutral color. If you showed up in a red or white convertible that would certainly be worldly. lolValerie wrote:I've love VW Beetles since I was 5 years old-
This is the last year their making them-
Would purchasing (as I have to buy a new car soon, I had a great deal on a lease) a "Final Edition" VW convertible beetle be considered 'worldly'?
Hubby & I were discussing this- we have been looking at the reliable suv's out there now but oh, this bug!! I have a VW presently-I respect their products-
Just wondered- it's funny how we can 'rationalize' things- like I was thinking about when we drive to Holmes County how nice the roofless buggies are for couples as their horse drives them around the countryside
As far as worldly goes it wouldn't really matter if it was a Final Edition or not. And since the body style hasn't changed on the Beetle in a number of years people really wouldn't need to know that it is a new car.
Now as to my recommendation (I will send you more info in a PM) I would not recommend a convertible Beetle as they do not tend to age very well. The convertible tops develop leaks around the seals and windows and because the structure of the car is built without the advantage of the roof support the chassis tends to develop squeaks, creaks, and rattles more quickly than a non-convertible version.
Unless there is some feature you really like about the Final Edition, I don't think they will hold their value much better than a regular beetle. 10 years from now they might be worth a couple hundred more than a regular edition but unless you didn't drive it and kept it in the garage all the time it will never be a "good investment".
A 2018 Beetle Convertible can be purchased slightly used (less than 20k miles) for about $8,000 less than a new 2019 and the 2018 will still have the remainder of the 6 year/72k mile warranty. For your husbands peace of mind you could take $2,000 of that $8,000 and buy an extended warranty good till 125k miles and also a AAA road service plan.
But of course if you really want a Final Edition and you need to buy a new car then by all means go ahead and get one. They are good solid cars that should serve you well for many years.
I do in fact get my VW serviced at the dealer. The 40K check/service for a DSG is 750$. Mine is more like 400$ for the check that includes transmission service.undershepherd wrote:Judas, as an independent VW sales and service specialist I would have to disagree with your advice about the DSG. Other than the early ones (2004-2008) the DSG has been the most reliable transmission that VW or probably anyone else has put in regular production vehicles. We have sold and serviced hundreds of them. The maintenance that you speak of is not really an issue either unless you rely on a VW dealer to service them. At our shop it is $220 for the DSG transmission fluid and filter service. That service is supposed to be done every 40k miles. The conventional automatics need fluid and filter changes every 60k miles and it costs about $180 to do those. I would much rather spend $220 every 40k on a transmission that is as reliable and efficient as the DSG.Judas Maccabeus wrote: Ok, from a person who has had a number of them, as well as a good VW specialist mechanic:
Your "New Beatle" is essentially my two-door golf with a slightly different body. I have had very good results from my VWs. I would suggest you avoid the "DSG" transmission, as it is a maintenance headache, and if you wind up looking for a used one avoid the 2l 8 valve engine as well. I have the 2.5 L 5 cylinder, and it runs nicely, and avoids the issues that turbos can cause. It will get you where you are going to go, with reasonable comfort, and good economy.
As an investment, they will likely make so many of them they will not be rare.
J.M.
For the rest of you who don't know what we are talking about, the DSG (Direct Shift Gearbox) is a fully automated manual transmission. What that means is that mechanically it is a manual transmission with a wet clutch and gears that they computer shifts and clutches for you so you can drive it like an automatic. It is really the best of both worlds. With the efficiency of a manual transmission (no torque or power losses through a torque converter like a conventional automatic) and the ease of use of an automatic. They are actually more reliable than VW's manual transmissions which usually require a clutch replacement somewhere between 100k -200k and which have had some issues with synchronizers failing on the 6 speeds.
The DSG was first developed and used by Porsche and since then VW puts the DSG in their diesel vehicles and in the performance oriented vehicles like the GTI, GLI, and CC. It is also used in Audis, Bugattis, and VW commercial vehicles overseas. Transmissions from other manufacturers using the same basic principles are used in commercial trucks and buses all over the world.
You advice about the 2.0 Liter engine is spot on. Avoid any VW 4 Cylinder gas engine made between 2006-2011. They were switching them over to direct injection and timing chains instead of belts during those years. It took a couple years to get the bugs out. Pretty much all the gas engines since 2012 have been excellent. The 2.5 liter 5 cylinder engine(which they don't make anymore) was pretty much bullet proof. The 2.0 Liter engine in the current Beetle that Valerie is considering is a very good engine - probably every bit as good as the 2.5 was.
Well that is pretty high even for VW dealerships. You see the problem is that the book calls for 3.2 hours to change the fluid and filter on a DSG when in fact it takes all of about 30 minutes to do and if their labor rate is $120+ per hour and they charge by the book that gets up in the $400 range. The fluid is $24 per liter and it takes just over 4 liters of the fluid plus a $20 filter. In fact you can buy an OEM VW filter and fluid change kit with 5 liters of DSG fluid for $134 on Amazon. Still no way it should cost $750 even at the dealership. I have heard of as high as $600.Judas Maccabeus wrote:
I do in fact get my VW serviced at the dealer. The 40K check/service for a DSG is 750$. Mine is more like 400$ for the check that includes transmission service.
Local VW independent won't touch transmissions for some reason. He is close to worthless, and if you have a major problem his advice is to trade it in.
J.M.
