Vaccinations - Poll

[Judas Maccabeus]

First, three examples:
Our doctor was pushing vaccinations on us and that we should do all the recommended and on and on, so I finally asked him, "How does a person contract Hepatitis B?" He hesitated and so I asked, "Is it true that it is only contrated through sex and dirty needles?" He said, "Yes." So I asked, "So, can you explain to me why it is recommended that an infant child get a Hep B shot?" He replied about it helping them develop an immunity for life. So I asked if it was true that it is admitted by the medical world that the best vaccines are about 50% effective after ten years? He replied, "Yes, well, you don't have to get that one." So then I asked, "Could you help me to understand why I should trust the other vaccines after these facts?" He changed the subject in a somewhat condemning way...

Incomplete answer there. I saw a missionary kid come down with it, from a less-than-sterile suture job in a Pakastani hospital. Can also be transmitted mother-baby. Occasionally though blood transfusion as well, but this is now rare. It is frighteningly common in some parts of Asia. So better trust that your children are lucky in their choice of spouse, and that they always get the best of care when injured.

next example isn't about vaccines but hopefully it helps with the point I am trying to make. I researched the eye drops that they put in a new born babies eyes and the only reason why they give it to babies is to protect them from gonorrhea and chlamydia. So I asked the doctor about the eye drops and he just kept recommending them. Finally I asked if it was true that it is only for gonorrhea and chlamydia. He said, "Yes, I don't see the need for you two to have to bother with the eye drops." Even still when many of our babies were born we were ridiculed and made to feel like we were neglectful aweful people by nurses because we politely declined the eye drops.

Yeah, true. But people with these conditions don't have any outward indication that they are infected. Those nurses are just trying to protect the eyesight of your children. If your child wound up blind and your wife turned out to be unfaithful, would you forgive yourself? Once again, ok to take the risk yourself, but to involve your children?

I asked the public health nurse why it is illegal in Canada for them to disclose to parents and patients the ingredients in vaccines? She said that, that was in fact a problem.

Would you understand the information if she gave it to you?

I have asked more questions and have been informed that I have been red flaged by the Canadian medical system.

I have never flagged a patient for asking questions, but I might courteously suggest you examine your attitude and look at your body language.

now to my point: Any company, organization, government or church that condemns people for asking questions and encourages people that they are not smart enough and that they should have unquestionable authority over our lives are no different than the very mindset that the original Anabaptist rejected and walked away from.

In my opinion to stay consistant if we can say that we are not smart enough to understand a little medical information and hand it over completely to an entity that feels like it cannot be questioned, than who are we to even handle the Word of Life? Why aren't we in the Catholic church?

I am sure Max would be willing to help you in this area.

I am married to a public health nurse. We both have international experience. If I hear one more antivaxer quoting a discredited study of hollywood icon as their source of information, I will hope they get transported to the third world, beyond the reach of quality medical care and see how they like it!

J.M.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I hate to be the one that pours cold water...but this is pure baloney.

More like voodoo, if it actually worked.

J.M.

Why is it the pro vaccine types using opinions and attacks on character while they are the ones trying to endorse science....?

Irradology is witchcraft! Period. Get caught practicing that in many conservative Mennonite circles, and you are running the risk of getting disfellowshipped.

J.M.

[Soloist]

BTW, a fundamental misunderstanding of how cell cultures work results in thinking that the "aborted baby" is somehow still present in the vaccine 20 years later. If so, it would have had to weigh 20 tons! While the cells may be descendants of these cells, none of the original cells remain. This fundamental misunderstanding led some in our fair city to believe that Heneretta Lacks is still somehow alive in the HeLa cell lines used for research 50 years later.

I think you should read the remnant article by the doctor. I think he states the position better than myself. Regardless of if the cells are the baby or not is in a sense like asking if you are still the person you were when you were born... That aside, you have to accept that a baby was killed to produce those vaccines and more will come at some point. How many babies need to die to make a treatment wrong?

This is an ethics issue and most people take the stance that the end justifies the means. Would your position be the same a year after this happened? a day?

[Josh]

All of our children are vaccinated. However a few years ago only half of them were. We had a chiropractor walk up to us in a dimly lit restaurant and the chiropractor told me accurately which of our children were vaccinated and which ones weren't by just looking at their eyes....

wow!
how'd he/she do that? what were they looking for?
did the eyes "show good" for vaccinated? or good for non vaccinated?

Wow! I wish I could have been there. I’m sorry that I really can’t begin to intelligently answer any of your questions- all I could try is to guess. This would be completely off the subject of vaccinations, but if I were to guess I wouldn’t be surprised if he had some knowledge of iridology.

Isn’t iridology just witchcraft? Dr Nolan Byler’s book documented fairly well that it is.

[JimFoxvog]

BTW, a fundamental misunderstanding of how cell cultures work results in thinking that the "aborted baby" is somehow still present in the vaccine 20 years later. If so, it would have had to weigh 20 tons! While the cells may be descendants of these cells, none of the original cells remain. This fundamental misunderstanding led some in our fair city to believe that Heneretta Lacks is still somehow alive in the HeLa cell lines used for research 50 years later.

I think you should read the remnant article by the doctor. I think he states the position better than myself. Regardless of if the cells are the baby or not is in a sense like asking if you are still the person you were when you were born... That aside, you have to accept that a baby was killed to produce those vaccines and more will come at some point. How many babies need to die to make a treatment wrong?

This is an ethics issue and most people take the stance that the end justifies the means. Would your position be the same a year after this happened? a day?

Was a baby killed to produce those vaccines, or was the baby killed for another reason and its cells then used. If some good came from that baby's life, isn't that better than if there wasn't that good?

[Wade]

More like voodoo, if it actually worked.

J.M.

Why is it the pro vaccine types using opinions and attacks on character while they are the ones trying to endorse science....?

Irradology is witchcraft! Period. Get caught practicing that in many conservative Mennonite circles, and you are running the risk of getting disfellowshipped.

J.M.

I don't even know what irradology is... So whats your point? Are you telling me because I shared that a chiroprator told me that because he could see a difference in my childrens eyes that I am a endoring witchcraft? Seems like an awefully big stretch...

You can have it J.M.

[DrWojo]

So now to my point: Any company, organization, government or church that condemns people for asking questions and encourages people that they are not smart enough and that they should have unquestionable authority over our lives are no different than the very mindset that the original Anabaptist rejected and walked away from.

In my opinion to stay consistant if we can say that we are not smart enough to understand a little medical information and hand it over completely to an entity that feels like it cannot be questioned, than who are we to even handle the Word of Life? Why aren't we in the Catholic church?

Edited to add:
I'm not saying that the medical world is wrong or that vaccines are bad. What I am questioning is that when someone takes the opportunity to attack your character while you just want to ask questions and be responsible - something is wrong. No one should expect that kind of authority.

Excellent thoughts with which I would agree.

[DrWojo]

First, three examples:
Our doctor was pushing vaccinations on us and that we should do all the recommended and on and on, so I finally asked him, "How does a person contract Hepatitis B?" He hesitated and so I asked, "Is it true that it is only contrated through sex and dirty needles?" He said, "Yes." So I asked, "So, can you explain to me why it is recommended that an infant child get a Hep B shot?" He replied about it helping them develop an immunity for life. So I asked if it was true that it is admitted by the medical world that the best vaccines are about 50% effective after ten years? He replied, "Yes, well, you don't have to get that one." So then I asked, "Could you help me to understand why I should trust the other vaccines after these facts?" He changed the subject in a somewhat condemning way...

Incomplete answer there. I saw a missionary kid come down with it, from a less-than-sterile suture job in a Pakastani hospital. Can also be transmitted mother-baby. Occasionally though blood transfusion as well, but this is now rare. It is frighteningly common in some parts of Asia. So better trust that your children are lucky in their choice of spouse, and that they always get the best of care when injured.

next example isn't about vaccines but hopefully it helps with the point I am trying to make. I researched the eye drops that they put in a new born babies eyes and the only reason why they give it to babies is to protect them from gonorrhea and chlamydia. So I asked the doctor about the eye drops and he just kept recommending them. Finally I asked if it was true that it is only for gonorrhea and chlamydia. He said, "Yes, I don't see the need for you two to have to bother with the eye drops." Even still when many of our babies were born we were ridiculed and made to feel like we were neglectful aweful people by nurses because we politely declined the eye drops.

Yeah, true. But people with these conditions don't have any outward indication that they are infected. Those nurses are just trying to protect the eyesight of your children. If your child wound up blind and your wife turned out to be unfaithful, would you forgive yourself? Once again, ok to take the risk yourself, but to involve your children?

I asked the public health nurse why it is illegal in Canada for them to disclose to parents and patients the ingredients in vaccines? She said that, that was in fact a problem.

Would you understand the information if she gave it to you?

I have asked more questions and have been informed that I have been red flaged by the Canadian medical system.

I have never flagged a patient for asking questions, but I might courteously suggest you examine your attitude and look at your body language.

now to my point: Any company, organization, government or church that condemns people for asking questions and encourages people that they are not smart enough and that they should have unquestionable authority over our lives are no different than the very mindset that the original Anabaptist rejected and walked away from.

In my opinion to stay consistant if we can say that we are not smart enough to understand a little medical information and hand it over completely to an entity that feels like it cannot be questioned, than who are we to even handle the Word of Life? Why aren't we in the Catholic church?

I am sure Max would be willing to help you in this area.

I am married to a public health nurse. We both have international experience. If I hear one more antivaxer quoting a discredited study of hollywood icon as their source of information, I will hope they get transported to the third world, beyond the reach of quality medical care and see how they like it!

J.M.

Thank you for your service as missionaries to others! I'm sure you have seen many more instances where careful adherence to protocols has helped to prevent contraction of disease. But what do you do with the post Joy made?

by Joy » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:57 pm
I may have told this before, but here it is.

A couple at church has a daughter that has messed-up motor skills, is underdeveloped, and screeches out at odd times. She was born normal, and their neurosurgeon, I believe it was, told them it was likely her six month vaccination, which is when it all started. Now she will apparently have to have expensive care and medication for the rest of her life unless the Lord does something special for her.
0 x
2Tim. 3:16,17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Top

My reason for bringing this up: The US still allows choice of medical care and procedures. I hope you would admit while it cannot be proven that the 6 month vaccination caused the infant's autism, neither can it be disproven! If such vaccines were mandatory, and an infant you vaccinated against its parents wishes wound up with autism, let me quote your question to Wade, "Would you forgive yourself?"
I'm thankful we as consumers of medical care still have choice of procedures and vaccines and are not forced to bow down to the authority of the medical practitioner, like it appears Canada has become (which usually follows Socialistic Medicine).

[Judas Maccabeus]

BTW, a fundamental misunderstanding of how cell cultures work results in thinking that the "aborted baby" is somehow still present in the vaccine 20 years later. If so, it would have had to weigh 20 tons! While the cells may be descendants of these cells, none of the original cells remain. This fundamental misunderstanding led some in our fair city to believe that Heneretta Lacks is still somehow alive in the HeLa cell lines used for research 50 years later.

I think you should read the remnant article by the doctor. I think he states the position better than myself. Regardless of if the cells are the baby or not is in a sense like asking if you are still the person you were when you were born... That aside, you have to accept that a baby was killed to produce those vaccines and more will come at some point. How many babies need to die to make a treatment wrong?

This is an ethics issue and most people take the stance that the end justifies the means. Would your position be the same a year after this happened? a day?

Was a baby killed to produce those vaccines, or was the baby killed for another reason and its cells then used. If some good came from that baby's life, isn't that better than if there wasn't that good?

Tissue used from an abortion that occurred for other reasons. IIRC from Scandinavia where it was legal early on.

I don’t get this “how many babies have to die stuff.

J.M.

[Judas Maccabeus]

First, three examples:
Our doctor was pushing vaccinations on us and that we should do all the recommended and on and on, so I finally asked him, "How does a person contract Hepatitis B?" He hesitated and so I asked, "Is it true that it is only contrated through sex and dirty needles?" He said, "Yes." So I asked, "So, can you explain to me why it is recommended that an infant child get a Hep B shot?" He replied about it helping them develop an immunity for life. So I asked if it was true that it is admitted by the medical world that the best vaccines are about 50% effective after ten years? He replied, "Yes, well, you don't have to get that one." So then I asked, "Could you help me to understand why I should trust the other vaccines after these facts?" He changed the subject in a somewhat condemning way...

Incomplete answer there. I saw a missionary kid come down with it, from a less-than-sterile suture job in a Pakastani hospital. Can also be transmitted mother-baby. Occasionally though blood transfusion as well, but this is now rare. It is frighteningly common in some parts of Asia. So better trust that your children are lucky in their choice of spouse, and that they always get the best of care when injured.

next example isn't about vaccines but hopefully it helps with the point I am trying to make. I researched the eye drops that they put in a new born babies eyes and the only reason why they give it to babies is to protect them from gonorrhea and chlamydia. So I asked the doctor about the eye drops and he just kept recommending them. Finally I asked if it was true that it is only for gonorrhea and chlamydia. He said, "Yes, I don't see the need for you two to have to bother with the eye drops." Even still when many of our babies were born we were ridiculed and made to feel like we were neglectful aweful people by nurses because we politely declined the eye drops.

Yeah, true. But people with these conditions don't have any outward indication that they are infected. Those nurses are just trying to protect the eyesight of your children. If your child wound up blind and your wife turned out to be unfaithful, would you forgive yourself? Once again, ok to take the risk yourself, but to involve your children?

I asked the public health nurse why it is illegal in Canada for them to disclose to parents and patients the ingredients in vaccines? She said that, that was in fact a problem.

Would you understand the information if she gave it to you?

I have asked more questions and have been informed that I have been red flaged by the Canadian medical system.

I have never flagged a patient for asking questions, but I might courteously suggest you examine your attitude and look at your body language.

now to my point: Any company, organization, government or church that condemns people for asking questions and encourages people that they are not smart enough and that they should have unquestionable authority over our lives are no different than the very mindset that the original Anabaptist rejected and walked away from.

In my opinion to stay consistant if we can say that we are not smart enough to understand a little medical information and hand it over completely to an entity that feels like it cannot be questioned, than who are we to even handle the Word of Life? Why aren't we in the Catholic church?

I am sure Max would be willing to help you in this area.

I am married to a public health nurse. We both have international experience. If I hear one more antivaxer quoting a discredited study of hollywood icon as their source of information, I will hope they get transported to the third world, beyond the reach of quality medical care and see how they like it!

J.M.

Thank you for your service as missionaries to others! I'm sure you have seen many more instances where careful adherence to protocols has helped to prevent contraction of disease. But what do you do with the post Joy made?

by Joy » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:57 pm
I may have told this before, but here it is.

A couple at church has a daughter that has messed-up motor skills, is underdeveloped, and screeches out at odd times. She was born normal, and their neurosurgeon, I believe it was, told them it was likely her six month vaccination, which is when it all started. Now she will apparently have to have expensive care and medication for the rest of her life unless the Lord does something special for her.
0 x
2Tim. 3:16,17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Top

My reason for bringing this up: The US still allows choice of medical care and procedures. I hope you would admit while it cannot be proven that the 6 month vaccination caused the infant's autism, neither can it be disproven! If such vaccines were mandatory, and an infant you vaccinated against its parents wishes wound up with autism, let me quote your question to Wade, "Would you forgive yourself?"
I'm thankful we as consumers of medical care still have choice of procedures and vaccines and are not forced to bow down to the authority of the medical practitioner, like it appears Canada has become (which usually follows Socialistic Medicine).

That cause-effect chain has been totally discredited as you likely know. We always dwell on the “what if” when someone bad happens, particularly to our children. It is a choice between the proven harm that vaccine preventable diseases cause verses the unproven and remote likelihood that this is caused by a disease.

Frankly in my fair state, you can’t enter a child into school or daycare without the proper vaccinations. Medical or religious exemptions only. And the public health leadership has always had considerable authority. Ever hear of quarantine and direct observed treatment.

J.M.