Vaccinations - Poll

[justme]

All of our children are vaccinated. However a few years ago only half of them were. We had a chiropractor walk up to us in a dimly lit restaurant and the chiropractor told me accurately which of our children were vaccinated and which ones weren't by just looking at their eyes....

wow!
how'd he/she do that? what were they looking for?
did the eyes "show good" for vaccinated? or good for non vaccinated?

[DrWojo]

. . . I repeat there are bad players in every industry. That is why we have regs. But even when the regulators do not catch them which they never will all the time market forces tend to take care of that.
What I find disheartening is how common it is starting to be to try and discredit whole industries or methods of doing something based on little more than hearsay and/or conspiratorial accusations. I think that is beneath us.

I agree with both sentiments. Lest anyone question if I am trying to discredit any specific industry or profession, I thought I'd try to reiterate a couple of things I tried to explain before. My problem has more to do with the methods chosen. I've thoroughly enjoyed science's rich history of folks that discovered cures, such as vaccinations. When I mentioned Jonas Salk and Edward Jenner in passing I did so for a reason, only I should have said Jonas Salk and Albert Sabin. I believe it was Jonas Salk that discovered the killed version of the Polio Vaccine that required an injection. Albert Sabin discovered the modified live (attenuated) version of the Polio Vaccine that could actually be administered orally. The difference between the 2 methods is not only the fact that Sabin's could be swallowed instead of injected; the problem lies in the fact that in a low percentage of the population vaccinated, the modified live version can cause the freshly vaccinated infant to defecate (poop) fecal material that contains virulent, live, infectious poliovirus that has been documented to cause polio in adults with a lowered immune system (even simply in elderly grandparents) that came in contact with said feces from changing the baby's diaper. To me, that would be reason enough to change to Salk's killed injected version of the vaccine. But no, it's easier to administer the one with the risk, so guess what method is employed?
I also gave the link that points out in 1940 there were only 2 different vaccines administered: 1 covered Diptheria, Tetanus and Pertussis (Whooping Cough), the second vaccine was for smallpox. These vaccines were administered one per visit at a rate of not more than 2 vaccines per year up to 2 years. In 1980 Measles, Mumps and Rubella were added and a total of 8 shots were administered before the age of 2. By 2012, 49 doses of 14 vaccines are given by the age of 6. To summarize, I didn't have a problem with how things used to be done (with the exception of the Oral Polio Vaccine (OPV), but I seriously question what the methods have turned into. Because I believe MN consists of morally upright folks I trust there is no need to debate a need for the STD vaccine(s), but if I have time I'll try to make sure they're not becoming mandatory although I'm afraid that may be around the corner for certain University applicants.

[DrWojo]

All of our children are vaccinated. However a few years ago only half of them were. We had a chiropractor walk up to us in a dimly lit restaurant and the chiropractor told me accurately which of our children were vaccinated and which ones weren't by just looking at their eyes....

wow!
how'd he/she do that? what were they looking for?
did the eyes "show good" for vaccinated? or good for non vaccinated?

Wow! I wish I could have been there. I’m sorry that I really can’t begin to intelligently answer any of your questions- all I could try is to guess. This would be completely off the subject of vaccinations, but if I were to guess I wouldn’t be surprised if he had some knowledge of iridology.

[Joy]

I may have told this before, but here it is.

A couple at church has a daughter that has messed-up motor skills, is underdeveloped, and screeches out at odd times. She was born normal, and their neurosurgeon, I believe it was, told them it was likely her six month vaccination, which is when it all started. Now she will apparently have to have expensive care and medication for the rest of her life unless the Lord does something special for her.

[joshuabgood]

All of our children are vaccinated. However a few years ago only half of them were. We had a chiropractor walk up to us in a dimly lit restaurant and the chiropractor told me accurately which of our children were vaccinated and which ones weren't by just looking at their eyes....

wow!
how'd he/she do that? what were they looking for?
did the eyes "show good" for vaccinated? or good for non vaccinated?

Wow! I wish I could have been there. I’m sorry that I really can’t begin to intelligently answer any of your questions- all I could try is to guess. This would be completely off the subject of vaccinations, but if I were to guess I wouldn’t be surprised if he had some knowledge of iridology.

I hate to be the one that pours cold water...but this is pure baloney.

[Wade]

All of our children are vaccinated. However a few years ago only half of them were. We had a chiropractor walk up to us in a dimly lit restaurant and the chiropractor told me accurately which of our children were vaccinated and which ones weren't by just looking at their eyes....

wow!
how'd he/she do that? what were they looking for?
did the eyes "show good" for vaccinated? or good for non vaccinated?

He told me that he could tell by the color of their eyes. - I couldn't tell...
I wouldn't have believed him if he wasn't right.

He said their was a deeper clarity and less yellow in the eyes of the children not vaccinated.

I am not endorsing this. This is just a fact of what happened. I cannot explain it.

[Judas Maccabeus]

wow!
how'd he/she do that? what were they looking for?
did the eyes "show good" for vaccinated? or good for non vaccinated?

Wow! I wish I could have been there. I’m sorry that I really can’t begin to intelligently answer any of your questions- all I could try is to guess. This would be completely off the subject of vaccinations, but if I were to guess I wouldn’t be surprised if he had some knowledge of iridology.

I hate to be the one that pours cold water...but this is pure baloney.

More like voodoo, if it actually worked.

J.M.

[Wade]

I did not choose any of the comply options because we comply simply because we feel it is the right thing to do. If I have to choose between trusting many of the quack medical experts out there or scientists I will take scientists any day.

So do you agree with them on evolution?

I think it is important that we seek the truth. Which can be easily manipulated with "science."

Notice the differences in these graphs:




One focuses on cases while the other focuses on deaths.

One shows a drop in cases after the vaccines while the other shows a longer time span to show no change in down ward rate of deaths.

One could come from a more reputable source while the other from a dog website...

I like math, it can be quite accurate, but it falls short where people manipulate or where information is missing. Both graphs could be guilty of such.
I think we need to start with being honest with ourselves. I think it is required to being open to scientist being wrong or manipulative before we can see truth.

And by the way, epidemiological studies like these which are used by drug companies don't stand up as fact in the court system as fact.

Sorry Wade I am not sure I get the point. No the problems associated from measles and whooping cough are not as great as from things like scarlet fever and polio. No one is denying that. But there is still a lot of misery avoided especially in very young children. Whooping cough in fact can be very serious for young children and I know of a few cases where measles was a very big deal when a pregnant women got it.
And no I do not blindly accept everything scientists have to say. But when I have no expertise in the matter and I have to trust someone I am going to trust the one I find most convincing and believable. In the case of vaccines that is a very easy choice for me. I accept that it is not for everyone. I am simply saying that if you do be prepared to live with the consequences of having to live with your conscience should your children infect a young baby that did not yet have a chance at taking the vaccine.
What I am trying to say is that this is often portrayed a being a personal choice that only affects you and your family. I expect that some of us will live to see the days when that is no longer correct. If you can live with that I am alright with it and will try not to be judgemental. I hope you can do the same for me if I say I could not live with myself were I to be responsible for a little child's death that could of been avoided.

I hesitate, but I will try again...

I researched vaccinations and other health things quite a lot in the past but I didn't actually feel comfortable so I would ask questions to doctors.
First, three examples:
Our doctor was pushing vaccinations on us and that we should do all the recommended and on and on, so I finally asked him, "How does a person contract Hepatitis B?" He hesitated and so I asked, "Is it true that it is only contrated through sex and dirty needles?" He said, "Yes." So I asked, "So, can you explain to me why it is recommended that an infant child get a Hep B shot?" He replied about it helping them develop an immunity for life. So I asked if it was true that it is admitted by the medical world that the best vaccines are about 50% effective after ten years? He replied, "Yes, well, you don't have to get that one." So then I asked, "Could you help me to understand why I should trust the other vaccines after these facts?" He changed the subject in a somewhat condemning way...

The next example isn't about vaccines but hopefully it helps with the point I am trying to make. I researched the eye drops that they put in a new born babies eyes and the only reason why they give it to babies is to protect them from gonorrhea and chlamydia. So I asked the doctor about the eye drops and he just kept recommending them. Finally I asked if it was true that it is only for gonorrhea and chlamydia. He said, "Yes, I don't see the need for you two to have to bother with the eye drops." Even still when many of our babies were born we were ridiculed and made to feel like we were neglectful aweful people by nurses because we politely declined the eye drops.

I asked the public health nurse why it is illegal in Canada for them to disclose to parents and patients the ingredients in vaccines? She said that, that was in fact a problem.

I have asked more questions and have been informed that I have been red flaged by the Canadian medical system.

So now to my point: Any company, organization, government or church that condemns people for asking questions and encourages people that they are not smart enough and that they should have unquestionable authority over our lives are no different than the very mindset that the original Anabaptist rejected and walked away from.

In my opinion to stay consistant if we can say that we are not smart enough to understand a little medical information and hand it over completely to an entity that feels like it cannot be questioned, than who are we to even handle the Word of Life? Why aren't we in the Catholic church?

Edited to add:
I'm not saying that the medical world is wrong or that vaccines are bad. What I am questioning is that when someone takes the opportunity to attack your character while you just want to ask questions and be responsible - something is wrong. No one should expect that kind of authority.

[Judas Maccabeus]

The burden of proof for FDA approval is very, very high - much higher than the burden of proof in a court of law.

I would have assumed from things I read from several of your other posts about your life that you know FDA approval is a commodity, like the “privilege and opportunity” to be granted Better Business Bureau Award status - all one needs is to pay the requested $ amount.

Not so. If payment of the "requested amount" would lead to approval, I know at least two drugs that would have been approved. Most of the expense involved is not FDA fees, but the cost of doing all of the studies required to get a drug through the process. One HIDA, (Technetium Tc 99m lidofenin) had almost completed the process, we just plain ran out of money, and a better rival was gaining momentum, with that coming online soon after our projected approval, we just could not attract the cash. I was involved in Phases 1-3 on that.

homoharringtonine finally got there, I was on the phase 1 for that, was finally approved for CML as Myelostat in 2012. Phase 1 began in 1983 or so, you can guess how much money was spent there. The process in mindnumbingly detailed, and even small mistakes or omissions can get a whole series thrown out.

The process normally works, but occasionally a problematic drug does slip through.

BTW, a fundamental misunderstanding of how cell cultures work results in thinking that the "aborted baby" is somehow still present in the vaccine 20 years later. If so, it would have had to weigh 20 tons! While the cells may be descendants of these cells, none of the original cells remain. This fundamental misunderstanding led some in our fair city to believe that Heneretta Lacks is still somehow alive in the HeLa cell lines used for research 50 years later.

The stuff that the Chinese do is indeed downright scary. There have been papers pulled that were scheduled for presentation at the last minute because it became apparent that the human volunteers were not volunteers at all, but were required to participate by the institution, 100% participation rate is the usual dead giveaway. They don't fully understand or appreciate western ethical ideas.

However, associating what they do with western vaccine research is a stretch.

J.M.

[Wade]

Wow! I wish I could have been there. I’m sorry that I really can’t begin to intelligently answer any of your questions- all I could try is to guess. This would be completely off the subject of vaccinations, but if I were to guess I wouldn’t be surprised if he had some knowledge of iridology.

I hate to be the one that pours cold water...but this is pure baloney.

More like voodoo, if it actually worked.

J.M.

Why is it the pro vaccine types using opinions and attacks on character while they are the ones trying to endorse science....?