The Nicene Creed

[MaxPC]

Can we define "diety"?

The term deity refers to a creator and a supreme being. In the case of historic Christianity that is our Trinitarian God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

Other religions define "god" differently.

[Josh]

So who was God or a deity as the Bible defined it in the Old Testament and as Abraham believed in God? There was no “Trinity” then and the ancient Jews certainly didn’t believe in a “Trinity” concept. Instead they believed in the oneness of God.

[KingdomBuilder]

So who was God or a deity as the Bible defined it in the Old Testament and as Abraham believed in God? There was no “Trinity” then and the ancient Jews certainly didn’t believe in a “Trinity” concept. Instead they believed in the oneness of God.

And never was it taught that the coming Messiah would be God in the flesh or that he would BE God.

[Ernie]

You can certainly be a Christian without knowing the word Gelassenheit. Same holds for the word Trinity. Both words have been helpful to many Christians, but they derive their authority from what the Bible says, not the other way around.
Personally, I find it very helpful to use the same language as the Bible when describing what it says. The Bible teaches what we really need to know. And the foundation is Jesus.

If we stick with the Bible wording, we might have different ideas in our minds, but at least we will be saying the same thing. Way less likely to end up far apart if we stick with the Bible wording when it comes to doctrine.

[Valerie]

So who was God or a deity as the Bible defined it in the Old Testament and as Abraham believed in God? There was no “Trinity” then and the ancient Jews certainly didn’t believe in a “Trinity” concept. Instead they believed in the oneness of God.

Back to Genesis-Genesis all 3 were present at Creation. Then read John 1.

[Josh]

So who was God or a deity as the Bible defined it in the Old Testament and as Abraham believed in God? There was no “Trinity” then and the ancient Jews certainly didn’t believe in a “Trinity” concept. Instead they believed in the oneness of God.

Back to Genesis-Genesis all 3 were present at Creation. Then read John 1.

This concept was completely nonexistent before Jesus came and the New Testament was written.

Abraham, Moses, King David, and other great figures of faith from the Old Testament era would have been unaware of the Trinity - or at least, they certainly never talked about it in scripture. We know plenty about what Jewish thinking was before the 1st century, and the concept of the Trinity never comes up at all.

[KingdomBuilder]

There is some ancient Jewish material that mentions the Messiah being the first thing made by YHWH, which he hid under his throne concealed from Satan, until the time when itd be right to reveal him.

[Bootstrap]

If we stick with the Bible wording, we might have different ideas in our minds, but at least we will be saying the same thing. Way less likely to end up far apart if we stick with the Bible wording when it comes to doctrine.

For instance, I really wonder if we all understand and agree with this phrase:

... of one essence with the Father.

What is an essence? What's the deal with substances and essences? Why was there one version in 325 and another in 381? Why do different translations of the Nicene Creed say different things here, and do these differences matter? Are these variations of the Nicene Creed saying the same thing or different things?

• of one essence with the Father.
• of one Being with the Father.
• consubstantial with the Father;
• of one substance with the Father

If they are saying different things, which one is right? If they are saying the same thing, why do they use these particular words? I really don't think this is easy to understand, and I don't think I need to know the answers to love, worship, and serve Jesus.

But I think we do understand and agree with what Jesus said:

I and the Father are one.

[Ernie]

[Valerie]

So who was God or a deity as the Bible defined it in the Old Testament and as Abraham believed in God? There was no “Trinity” then and the ancient Jews certainly didn’t believe in a “Trinity” concept. Instead they believed in the oneness of God.

Back to Genesis-Genesis all 3 were present at Creation. Then read John 1.

This concept was completely nonexistent before Jesus came and the New Testament was written.

Abraham, Moses, King David, and other great figures of faith from the Old Testament era would have been unaware of the Trinity - or at least, they certainly never talked about it in scripture. We know plenty about what Jewish thinking was before the 1st century, and the concept of the Trinity never comes up at all.

That is because they didn't know until the Word became flesh and dwelt among them. Even then, the Jews did not believe Jesus.Read John 8:48-59. Jesus is the One who said "Before Abraham was, I am" so whether they knew it during the OT days or not, Jesus certainly affirmed it, and so did His Apostles