Unlawful remarriage of injured spouse. A false Mennonite teaching

[Hats Off]

Confused again- I did say 'most' people, not all people-
Is it common for people to be attending Churches that they don't think are the most correct? If that is the case, what keeps people from attending Churches that they feel are the most correct? Why would we attend churches we feel are incorrect if there exists those that we believe to be more correct? Location? Availability?
Are there that many people that are settling for churches they don't agree with?

I think Lester has pointed out in the past that most of us who have membership in a plain church realize that our "package" is not perfect but we need to accept the entire package. Sometimes we see things in another group that look really good but when we look at the entire "package" we find that they have weaknesses as well. Even if we are in an area where there are a multitude of choices, we need to settle for and submit to some "package" so it may as well be the imperfect one we have now (as long as there is nothing greatly wrong with it.) For someone like Wade, he has made the best choice he can find where he is located. And to move to Ontario (or Indiana or Ohio or Pa.) would mean he would still have to sift through all the different groups to find one that seems to work for his family. Usually there is an element of compromise in accepting church membership.

The sifting part is what still is confusing to me. How can we know a group unless we spend a couple years getting to know them? And then we still don't know other groups unless we church hop for a couple years to another?
I think if we move we would most likely move to a place like Ontario because of connections made here with people like Hatsoff or Alberta because of Lester - but that is still very challenging with the differences of groups still being confusing me...
Again for someone that is used to being surrounded by choices I think they are conditioned to it and maybe they don't recognize that someone who has never seen that that it could be overwhelming.

I had an intermediate conservative minister that lives in the same town as a Holdeman church tell me that people in the community have asked if there is a difference between the two groups. If I remember correctly he said something about "not much." The people asking said, "That's what the Holdemans said too..." This minister seemed very satisfied... Unfortunately, this is actually a terrible testimony to every on looker and newcomer I have talked to. The New Testament church letters were written to the church in the particular city - one church per city.
If we can agree that there isn't much different between us and the next group but we can't even worship together what are we telling people?!

I understand completely that the choices could be confusing! The better we know you, the better we can help you if you were to be ready. I think someone in your situation would need to have a list of what is important to you. From that we could help you do the sifting. I was responding mostly to Valerie's previous question where we almost always need to settle for something less than what we would desire.

[Wade]

I think Lester has pointed out in the past that most of us who have membership in a plain church realize that our "package" is not perfect but we need to accept the entire package. Sometimes we see things in another group that look really good but when we look at the entire "package" we find that they have weaknesses as well. Even if we are in an area where there are a multitude of choices, we need to settle for and submit to some "package" so it may as well be the imperfect one we have now (as long as there is nothing greatly wrong with it.) For someone like Wade, he has made the best choice he can find where he is located. And to move to Ontario (or Indiana or Ohio or Pa.) would mean he would still have to sift through all the different groups to find one that seems to work for his family. Usually there is an element of compromise in accepting church membership.

The sifting part is what still is confusing to me. How can we know a group unless we spend a couple years getting to know them? And then we still don't know other groups unless we church hop for a couple years to another?
I think if we move we would most likely move to a place like Ontario because of connections made here with people like Hatsoff or Alberta because of Lester - but that is still very challenging with the differences of groups still being confusing me...
Again for someone that is used to being surrounded by choices I think they are conditioned to it and maybe they don't recognize that someone who has never seen that that it could be overwhelming.

I had an intermediate conservative minister that lives in the same town as a Holdeman church tell me that people in the community have asked if there is a difference between the two groups. If I remember correctly he said something about "not much." The people asking said, "That's what the Holdemans said too..." This minister seemed very satisfied... Unfortunately, this is actually a terrible testimony to every on looker and newcomer I have talked to. The New Testament church letters were written to the church in the particular city - one church per city.
If we can agree that there isn't much different between us and the next group but we can't even worship together what are we telling people?!

I understand completely that the choices could be confusing! The better we know you, the better we can help you if you were to be ready. I think someone in your situation would need to have a list of what is important to you. From that we could help you do the sifting. I was responding mostly to Valerie's previous question where we almost always need to settle for something less than what we would desire.

Thank you Hatsoff, maybe I should do that as I have changed my mind on numerous things since the influence of Mennonet. I've felt a bit desperate that I don't really care much what I want anymore and that probably isn't always helpful when I really want to reach out to others... And am feeling quite discouraged about trying to talk with our Pastor.
I'll try better to define later but I'll start with this that the two greatest commandments is pivotal in what I want.

Anyway, we've got company(CA's looking to church plant) coming this week and I'm trying to make it possible for them to stay the night if the wanted and other responsibilities to tend to too... So I probably should focus on other things than being on the computer.

[RZehr]

I had an intermediate conservative minister that lives in the same town as a Holdeman church tell me that people in the community have asked if there is a difference between the two groups. If I remember correctly he said something about "not much." The people asking said, "That's what the Holdemans said too..." This minister seemed very satisfied... Unfortunately, this is actually a terrible testimony to every on looker and newcomer I have talked to. The New Testament church letters were written to the church in the particular city - one church per city.
If we can agree that there isn't much different between us and the next group but we can't even worship together what are we telling people?!

The reason is that although there isn't much difference, there is still a difference.

If church was only about worshiping together that would be one thing. That is how most of this country views church - just a place to worship with other like minded people. I'm happy to worship with a wide variety of people. Worship is one thing. But being part of a plain Mennonite church and community is a whole different thing. Our lives and level of commitment are higher and beyond worshiping together Sunday morning, so we have to take more care in choosing who we are going to be a part of. The stakes are higher.

I've given the same "not much" answer to people when asked about our church vs another church, because I know that the differences to them would be "not much". When pressed I have happily and freely shared the differences, and my experience of doing so has taught me that "not much" is a fair way to describe it to the casual questioner.
Typically they aren't interested in the details, but are really inquiring how you feel about the other group, whether you view them with brotherhood or hostility. But if someone has a better way to answer these questions, I'm open to hearing it.

[Hats Off]

I had an intermediate conservative minister that lives in the same town as a Holdeman church tell me that people in the community have asked if there is a difference between the two groups. If I remember correctly he said something about "not much." The people asking said, "That's what the Holdemans said too..." This minister seemed very satisfied... Unfortunately, this is actually a terrible testimony to every on looker and newcomer I have talked to. The New Testament church letters were written to the church in the particular city - one church per city.
If we can agree that there isn't much different between us and the next group but we can't even worship together what are we telling people?!

The reason is that although there isn't much difference, there is still a difference.

If church was only about worshiping together that would be one thing. That is how most of this country views church - just a place to worship with other like minded people. I'm happy to worship with a wide variety of people. Worship is one thing. But being part of a plain Mennonite church and community is a whole different thing. Our lives and level of commitment are higher and beyond worshiping together Sunday morning, so we have to take more care in choosing who we are going to be a part of. The stakes are higher.

I've given the same "not much" answer to people when asked about our church vs another church, because I know that the differences to them would be "not much". When pressed I have happily and freely shared the differences, and my experience of doing so has taught me that "not much" is a fair way to describe it to the casual questioner.
Typically they aren't interested in the details, but are really inquiring how you feel about the other group, whether you view them with brotherhood or hostility. But if someone has a better way to answer these questions, I'm open to hearing it.

I think I am happy with your answer - I am sure I have answered the same way. To us some of the differences are significant, but usually the people asking the question aren't really looking for that level of detail.

[Wade]

I had an intermediate conservative minister that lives in the same town as a Holdeman church tell me that people in the community have asked if there is a difference between the two groups. If I remember correctly he said something about "not much." The people asking said, "That's what the Holdemans said too..." This minister seemed very satisfied... Unfortunately, this is actually a terrible testimony to every on looker and newcomer I have talked to. The New Testament church letters were written to the church in the particular city - one church per city.
If we can agree that there isn't much different between us and the next group but we can't even worship together what are we telling people?!

The reason is that although there isn't much difference, there is still a difference.

If church was only about worshiping together that would be one thing. That is how most of this country views church - just a place to worship with other like minded people. I'm happy to worship with a wide variety of people. Worship is one thing. But being part of a plain Mennonite church and community is a whole different thing. Our lives and level of commitment are higher and beyond worshiping together Sunday morning, so we have to take more care in choosing who we are going to be a part of. The stakes are higher.

I've given the same "not much" answer to people when asked about our church vs another church, because I know that the differences to them would be "not much". When pressed I have happily and freely shared the differences, and my experience of doing so has taught me that "not much" is a fair way to describe it to the casual questioner.
Typically they aren't interested in the details, but are really inquiring how you feel about the other group, whether you view them with brotherhood or hostility. But if someone has a better way to answer these questions, I'm open to hearing it.

I think I am happy with your answer - I am sure I have answered the same way. To us some of the differences are significant, but usually the people asking the question aren't really looking for that level of detail.

This is completely disappointing! I trusted that minister so I believed him! He gave me the impression they weren't serious by saying that!
Where is the open honesty?!
I was fully prepared and doing everything I could to move their!
Please realize for newcomers to forsake all and move is no small thing - if you can't even be honest that you yourself are serious then why should we move to you?!
Talk about discouraging!!!

The best way is to be HONEST!

please...

[Hats Off]

I think RZehr would probably agree with me that our first answer is rather vague or general but that is what most questioners are looking for. If a person keeps asking or is obviously seeking a deeper answer, then we will take the time and effort to explain more. As you become ready for more, or understand what we have said so far, we will continue. The discussion should be a work in process.

[Wade]

I think RZehr would probably agree with me that our first answer is rather vague or general but that is what most questioners are looking for. If a person keeps asking or is obviously seeking a deeper answer, then we will take the time and effort to explain more. As you become ready for more, or understand what we have said so far, we will continue. The discussion should be a work in process.

Well right from the start you give a poor impression that you aren't interested. And if your church doesn't have newcomers then most will justify there own reasoning that your actions speak consistently with your impression and they will move on... This is so sad.

[Wade]

[Josh]

Considering the early Anabaptists moved, by boats that seemed to sink as often as they arrived in one piece, from Europe and Russia to Ohio and Pennsylvania, I don’t feel much guilt in telling seekers to consider moving to Ohio, Pennsylvania, or Ontario.

It baffles me how unwilling folks are who claim to be seeking a good church to actually move anywhere near to the nirvana they seek. As far as church plants and missions go, my own church is doing all it can to plant missions and congregations all over North America and the globe. Other conservative Mennonites do as well. They often spend years away from the comfort of family and friends and a big, established church.

Seekers would do well to consider likewise.

Unfortunately, a seeker I know that did move to PA found himself surrounded by a number of similar churches comparing themselves among themselves and has become very discouraged that it has been nothing close to nirvana (we seekers aren't Buddhist anyway).
Sectarianism is a killer of faith and divider of Christians that should be working together in brotherly love - and especially difficult for newcomers to understand or cope with from my experience and talking to most others.

If you want One True Church, then join the Holdemans.

Otherwise don’t complain about differences between different Mennonite churches, unless you’ve got some amazing plan to make them all identical and in perfect unity.

[Wade]

Considering the early Anabaptists moved, by boats that seemed to sink as often as they arrived in one piece, from Europe and Russia to Ohio and Pennsylvania, I don’t feel much guilt in telling seekers to consider moving to Ohio, Pennsylvania, or Ontario.

It baffles me how unwilling folks are who claim to be seeking a good church to actually move anywhere near to the nirvana they seek. As far as church plants and missions go, my own church is doing all it can to plant missions and congregations all over North America and the globe. Other conservative Mennonites do as well. They often spend years away from the comfort of family and friends and a big, established church.

Seekers would do well to consider likewise.

Unfortunately, a seeker I know that did move to PA found himself surrounded by a number of similar churches comparing themselves among themselves and has become very discouraged that it has been nothing close to nirvana (we seekers aren't Buddhist anyway).
Sectarianism is a killer of faith and divider of Christians that should be working together in brotherly love - and especially difficult for newcomers to understand or cope with from my experience and talking to most others.

If you want One True Church, then join the Holdemans.

Otherwise don’t complain about differences between different Mennonite churches, unless you’ve got some amazing plan to make them all identical and in perfect unity.

Josh, you sure have a way of twisting almost everything I say into something I did not intend or even consider...