lesterb wrote:The attitude of the people you are talking about HO is totally different from the one I see in Spartaeus. We are dealing with someone like him in church life right now, and if you cave in on one area, it just leads to another one. So he tries to rebuild the whole congregation in his own image, then when we resist, puts us on a guilt trip for "not accepting him". Maybe I've been too harsh here, but I've seen where this can take us.
And after you've gone above and beyond all reasonable effort to accommodate their demands, they invariably end up leaving anyway.
This is where the hermeneutic community provides some checks and balances. If someone descends on us with a mission to "bring us a message from God" and reveal "the understanding that God has given them", and God hasn't given anyone else at least a nudge in that direction, proceed with caution.
One of the sects of the Old Brethren have the exact same view of marriage that Spartaeus wants here (first person you sleep with = your spouse). Seems like the logical thing to do would be for him to join that group.
lesterb wrote:The attitude of the people you are talking about HO is totally different from the one I see in Spartaeus. We are dealing with someone like him in church life right now, and if you cave in on one area, it just leads to another one. So he tries to rebuild the whole congregation in his own image, then when we resist, puts us on a guilt trip for "not accepting him". Maybe I've been too harsh here, but I've seen where this can take us.
And after you've gone above and beyond all reasonable effort to accommodate their demands, they invariably end up leaving anyway.
This is where the hermeneutic community provides some checks and balances. If someone descends on us with a mission to "bring us a message from God" and reveal "the understanding that God has given them", and God hasn't given anyone else at least a nudge in that direction, proceed with caution.
I just didn't want to put it into those words although I agree with and understand what you and Lester are saying.
Bryce Geiser couldn't hold the community at Cookeville together. God, and faith in God, from within us must hold it together, if our motives are righteous and we are servants in his kingdom. If we pick and choose the scriptures that suit us, we are creating a new religion. We are adding to or taking away from God's word. Then we are not following his original intent of keeping the weightier matters of the law such as mercy and justice. Instead we whined up with our own form of self righteousness, not godliness. That is the greatest fear of all the man made religions. That they will be proved wrong. That they are wrong in their beliefs. And all the legalism that they forced upon others was just sin without repentance because of the pride of their traditions. God did not create your traditions, you did! If your traditions cause you to sin, put them away. But the proud cannot. The self-righteous cannot. You fight for your beliefs not because they bring mercy, but because you're too stubborn. So you make excuses and say, oh if i allow a little to change then all be changed. Well, doesn't the world cling to their beliefs in the same way. Isn't it just as sinful? When God created man, he created them both male and female for a purpose. But eve sinned and led Adam astray. Because of the hardness of your hearts you sin. Whether you condemn a woman and her children who has been put away to live in hardship the rest of her life as God never intended, or you break up 2nd marriages even if God has joined them together. You are the one who is sinning! You are the one who has no mercy upon God's children! Why because like the pharisees, you have replaced God's law with your traditions. You take a sin of one extreme and create a sin of the extreme opposite. And you say it's to preserve what God had intended for everyone. God gives us a choice to be celibate. You don't! God is merciful! You are not! We are to be Christ- like. Do you seriously believe that you are?
Spartaeus wrote:Bryce Geiser couldn't hold the community at Cookeville together. God, and faith in God, from within us must hold it together, if our motives are righteous and we are servants in his kingdom. If we pick and choose the scriptures that suit us, we are creating a new religion. We are adding to or taking away from God's word. Then we are not following his original intent of keeping the weightier matters of the law such as mercy and justice. Instead we whined up with our own form of self righteousness, not godliness. That is the greatest fear of all the man made religions. That they will be proved wrong. That they are wrong in their beliefs. And all the legalism that they forced upon others was just sin without repentance because of the pride of their traditions. God did not create your traditions, you did! If your traditions cause you to sin, put them away. But the proud cannot. The self-righteous cannot. You fight for your beliefs not because they bring mercy, but because you're too stubborn. So you make excuses and say, oh if i allow a little to change then all be changed. Well, doesn't the world cling to their beliefs in the same way. Isn't it just as sinful? When God created man, he created them both male and female for a purpose. But eve sinned and led Adam astray. Because of the hardness of your hearts you sin. Whether you condemn a woman and her children who has been put away to live in hardship the rest of her life as God never intended, or you break up 2nd marriages even if God has joined them together. You are the one who is sinning! You are the one who has no mercy upon God's children! Why because like the pharisees, you have replaced God's law with your traditions. You take a sin of one extreme and create a sin of the extreme opposite. And you say it's to preserve what God had intended for everyone. God gives us a choice to be celibate. You don't! God is merciful! You are not! We are to be Christ- like. Do you seriously believe that you are?
To be honest, I find it a bit odd that you're focusing so much on a practice that has strong biblical backing and using that as a basis to complain about our legalism and self righteousness, rather than any other number of traditions and practices without much scriptural basis that are prevalent in Mennonite churches.
Spartaeus wrote:Bryce Geiser couldn't hold the community at Cookeville together. God, and faith in God, from within us must hold it together, if our motives are righteous and we are servants in his kingdom. If we pick and choose the scriptures that suit us, we are creating a new religion. We are adding to or taking away from God's word. Then we are not following his original intent of keeping the weightier matters of the law such as mercy and justice. Instead we whined up with our own form of self righteousness, not godliness. That is the greatest fear of all the man made religions. That they will be proved wrong. That they are wrong in their beliefs. And all the legalism that they forced upon others was just sin without repentance because of the pride of their traditions. God did not create your traditions, you did! If your traditions cause you to sin, put them away. But the proud cannot. The self-righteous cannot. You fight for your beliefs not because they bring mercy, but because you're too stubborn. So you make excuses and say, oh if i allow a little to change then all be changed. Well, doesn't the world cling to their beliefs in the same way. Isn't it just as sinful? When God created man, he created them both male and female for a purpose. But eve sinned and led Adam astray. Because of the hardness of your hearts you sin. Whether you condemn a woman and her children who has been put away to live in hardship the rest of her life as God never intended, or you break up 2nd marriages even if God has joined them together. You are the one who is sinning! You are the one who has no mercy upon God's children! Why because like the pharisees, you have replaced God's law with your traditions. You take a sin of one extreme and create a sin of the extreme opposite. And you say it's to preserve what God had intended for everyone. God gives us a choice to be celibate. You don't! God is merciful! You are not! We are to be Christ- like. Do you seriously believe that you are?
Sparteus,
The conservative Mennonite church I am a part of would not object to your desire to be married again.
However, they would certainly object to the attitude shown to your ex wife here. Amongst other things you referred to her as a whore. That’s not an attitude of forgiveness and reconciliation at all. I’m sure you ex wife has sinned - but what about you?
I never slept around on anyone. Neither did I ever divorce anyone. As for calling my first wife a whore. I think it's a fair description of an unrepentant female who sleeps around casually with who she chooses. But I also consider some men whores also. For without male whores, there wouldn't be any female whores. If you don't like the terms I use, then you better burn your bible, cause there's a lot stronger terms in there than I use. I also called her a murderer. I think that's a good description of someone who murders unborn babies as a form of birth control. I think calling her a baptist who believes osas to be just as despicable, but you didn't object to that. I guess when you cant refute what God says, you kill the messenger. Sounds familar? Didn't the jews do that? And what did God do to them? Time to repent..?