Unlawful remarriage of injured spouse. A false Mennonite teaching

[Hats Off]

We must consider the original purpose of marriage, which is what mennonites do not look at. You can't blame the catholic church for everything! Its up to Mennonites to repent from their pride, and ask forgiveness to those they've unjustly condemned.

Spartaeus, please explain the above statement. I don't know what it is that I must repent of or ask forgiveness for! We go back to the Garden of Eden for our understanding of marriage when God created a help meet for Adam (Genisis 2: 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and they shall become one flesh.) Then in Mark 10, we have the words of Jesus verse 6 and 7: (But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife.)

I think this is also the first time i Have heard the term "levirate marriage" but from the context I believe I understand what you are referring to but again don't see what I have to repent of.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Lesterb : Its a lack of human reasoning or common sense that tears apart Gods wisdom and creates harmful traditions. Its those who do not truly seek Gods truth and that will not accept it, that God conceals his wisdom from. The rabbinites believe that any tradition that the jews practiced for decades automatically becomes part of the oral law. Most are harmless such as the skullcap they wear. But when traditions are placed above Gods law to the point where they conflict with Gods law or supercede it as did phariseeical law, then there's a problem. Gods law is there to help us, to guide us, to give us life. Its not there to bring us misery. Its there to teach us what sin is, so we do not do harm to each other, so we can live together without bringing harm to one another. Gods law is not there to be used as the pharisees did to place heavy loads upon one another. Acts 15 Gods law is for our benefit.
No one is tearing the scriptures down, rather they need to be used properly, according to the spirit of the law, rather than the letter of the law. In case you don't know, levirate marriages are still practiced among Mennonites in Africa. God established levirate marriages for a beneficial purpose and it wasn't for sex. It is for the purpose of keeping the brothers bloodline continuing, and for providing for the family of a deceased brother. But somehow the ungodly minds of some calling themselves Christians believe that its only purpose is to give the brother extra sex. When in fact its a responsibility not to be taken lightly. A responsibility that God commanded us to keep, whether certain puritanicals agree with it or not, God ordered it.
God gave us exceptions to some laws to be used for the benefit of people, not to harm them. Sin is against another person. If there is none harmed, and it is used for a beneficial use, God allows it. Except for divorce would not even have been mentioned. But God was showing his mercy by not calling for the death penalty for an adulterous woman. Today adultery is everywhere. A union between two believers is a rare blessing that should be honored. No one has the right or authority to say that God wants two Christian believers to separate from each other, thus tearing children and fathers and wives apart because they believe that they are hurting an adulterous previous non believing spouse who couldn't care less about his first wife or husband. If the Mennonite Churches had allowed the full body of Christ to come in, they would have shown mercy years ago. But like most denominations the full body of Christ is excluded.

Sounds to me like you have a dog in this fight. Is this the case?

J.M.

[Robert]

More progressive Mennonite conferences allow for divorce and remarriage. So is it the conservative appearing lifestyle you feel is important, or the living out of God's mercy and love what you see as core?

If it is the former, then one will have to accept the beliefs and traditions of the conservative Mennonites. If it is the latter, then it can be found in more progressive Mennonite groups also along with many of the core principles that the Conservative Mennonites center on also.

[ohio jones]

Sounds to me like you have a dog in this fight. Is this the case?

Woof.

[Neto]

While marriage is symbolically important in Scripture, it is not an eternal relationship. (Just look at Jesus' answer to the Sadducees' question about the 7 brothers.) There are also other ways in which abandoned children & spouses can be cared for in the church community. Personal happiness is not a guaranteed right. Wrong choices in the marriage decision sometimes result in life-long pain. But God is faithful in these situations, and He also wants his children to be faithful. (And I am not arguing for or against the permissibility of remarriage after persistent infidelity, although I do have an opinion on how the Scripture should be taken on this question.)

[temporal1]

Page 1

The early Anabaptists who allowed for remarriage were operating based on the Roman Catholic view of marriage. The church leaders decided who was fit to remarry and who was not.

As the Anabaptist movement matured, so did their understanding of the scriptures.
No longer was it a matter of marrying inside or outside the church but rather,
"What did God intend from the beginning?"
The scriptural texts (and their interpretation of them) became the authority on who could remarry, rather than the church leaders.

Also, it became clear to conservative Anabaptists that the whole theme of NT restoration becomes nearly impossible if a person remarries. This includes restoration to a spouse as well as restoration to the Lord.

Few spouses are "won by the conversation of their wife" if they remarry.
Conservative Anabaptists have dozens of stories of spouses who faithfully prayed for their estranged spouse and eventually were able to see the fruit of their prayers.

CA churches have typically supported spouses who have chosen to take this path.

If I'm understanding correctly, it does seem to me that your question puts the focus on the injured spouse and how to reach out to him/her.

The CA position puts the focus on the perpetrator and how to reach out to him/her.
(The focus of the book of Hosea.)
If a CA church does well with this, the injured spouse will also feel the care and support of the church community during this time of grief.

Spartaeus, your pain is palpable, it’s agonizing to read, even remotely, as here, on this forum.
Your pain is not in question. Empathy is not in question.

i am not a member of an Anabaptist fellowship, but, i believe as they do on this.
the Book of Hosea spoke to me this way before i knew anything about Anabaptists. not at first reading.

i read Hosea many times over years, to be honest, i was in disbelief at what i found there.
a godly husband enduring the most vile actions of his wife?! - when, at the time, socially and legally, he had every right to divorce and remarry?! his friends must have thought he was a fool.
to this day, this is common+accepted thinking. but, Jesus is not common.

for years, i silently read this book, not sharing with anyone, because, i was “pretty sure” i was reading it wrong. how could this be? it must be my inability to understand. it’s a short book. mostly ignored. i do not recall one sermon on it, nor a Sunday school class .. i had questions for years. too shy to ask.

eventually, i found this forum. in time, i asked about Hosea and Gomer.
much to my surprise - i was told by some learned members, i was reading correctly.
after so many years, i can’t describe what this meant for me. my reading is “ok.”
since, i have continued to read and learn more about this important book; most often ignored.

on this forum, i have read different members question in very similar ways you question here.
the pain is real. some become angry over it.

i will rely on others to determine where my response to rejection+anger falls on this.

Jesus does not want our false/empty prayers, or actions.
for those who are touched by the Book of Hosea as Ernie describes, belief+faith become strength and direction. even comfort. if this is not present, if actions are forced to do nothing more than to align with church rules .. then, hasn’t the unintended step of false prayer and action been taken?

yes. we are to be obedient, which means, in any given moment, we may not be happy, or fully engaged or eager to obey. but, evenso, there remains a heartfelt desire to obey, over momentary “wants.”

any in such situations should seriously pray for guidance (i’m sure you do.)
if there is no resolution about applying (Hosea+Gomer) .. i would not force it. forcing tempts additional sins, some grave. forcing can become destructive to all parties and the community.

scriptures promise, in time, Truth will be revealed.
when Truth is revealed, the way to abide in it becomes known. The Way is revealed, not hidden.
this is granted by the Holy Spirit.

having said all that ^^^ ..
for you to be so impacted as you are on this reflects your depth of heart on it.
if not, the questions would not matter. you would easily ignore and move on .. many do.

is it possible you are struggling with the Holy Spirit on this? not yet quite “getting it?” or accepting the message? we humans are good at wrestling-hard against Truth.

i have no idea. no need to respond. it’s something i question myself about.

here, i would prefer to quote scripture, but, Shakespeare comes to mind,
”The lady doth protest too much” ..

While marriage is symbolically important in Scripture, it is not an eternal relationship. (Just look at Jesus' answer to the Sadducees' question about the 7 brothers.)

There are also other ways in which abandoned children & spouses can be cared for in the church community.

Personal happiness is not a guaranteed right.

Wrong choices in the marriage decision sometimes result in life-long pain.

But God is faithful in these situations, and He also wants his children to be faithful.

(And I am not arguing for or against the permissibility of remarriage after persistent infidelity, although I do have an opinion on how the Scripture should be taken on this question.)

important truths.
(i have no idea about Neto’s opinions in his last sentence.)

[temporal1]

you see, in my real life, not in Anabaptist settings, i occasionally witnessed situations of extreme insult+injury within marriages - that could have ended in divorce, without anyone questioning.
the world now delights in divorce.

however, for some remarkable reason, the spouses (usually women) chose not to divorce.
were they happy? no. they were hurt. their children suffered. suffering “everywhere.”

in time, tho, some of these marriages were restored. sometimes, with claims, “better than before.”
how can this be?! the world does not teach such lessons.

before i read the Book of Hosea, i witnessed a few of these restored marriages. impressive, even without understanding from a scriptural view.

i believe it is less common for the husband to be the long suffering spouse.
Hosea demonstrates “everything” that’s needed to be known. God had good reason for Hosea to be everything he was, including male.

[MaxPC]

Problem is, I strongly believe that they are the closest group on earth to a living breathing example of how God wants his people to live. Even though I know they live as they do, without having the full truth and knowledge of Gods word, they still act and live the closest to how God wants us to live, with the one exception. Their misunderstanding or ignorance creates a legalism that causes them to sin against God and his children. Although I believe its unintentional, God wants mercy, not legalism.
Deut. 6:24 Gods law is for us, for our benefit.We now have the spirit of the law so we can use the law lawfully. What mercy is there to create suffering where none is due? Where is Gods holy spirit to guide us? Certainly not in Talmudic law or Christian legalism. They are both abhorrent to God. Are we so twisted that we call good evil, and evil good? Do we punish the innocent and ignore the sinner? Are not Gods commandments to teach us right from wrong? And that the wicked should be punished not the innocent. Why would God command us to punish the righteous? Its completely inconsistent with all of Gods teachings. And more so if you could read Hebrew and understood their history and culture, you would know there are no inconsistencies. And that the inconsistencies come from those who pridefully cling to a terrible bible translation that teaches false doctrines and confusion.

So if we are " the closest group on earth to a living breathing example of how God wants his people to live" is there any chance that you might be wrong about this, rather than the rest of us? Most people who view us that way also find a thing or two that they strongly disagree with. We would be the "perfect" solution, except for "******". If we were to make all of those changes, we would very quickly no longer be what any of you wanted.

So, if you like the package, don't fuss about the string that holds it together. Neither you nor I will ever find a group we agree with entirely. God has designed it that way to see if we are willing to submit ourselves to a brotherhood.

The rest of your post is simply human reasoning that is commonly used to destroy what the Bible teaches.

Sorry... [If you're going to use a sledge hammer on us, don't expect us to be very sympathetic]

Amen and amen, Lester. You've hit the proverbial nail spot on.

[Wade]

Jesus said,

"...bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven..."

Maybe sometimes people are testing our sincerity by our sympathy?!

[Josh]

I’m not sure what Hosea has to do with much of anything. I’ve not heard it taught in Anabaptist circles as a defence of their views on divorce and remarriage.

Most Christians (including most Anabaptists) don’t feel it’s right to divorce your wife just because you were married previously to someone else who is now gone and is married to someone else.