briar patch

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
Valerie
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Re: briar patch

Post by Valerie »

GaryK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 9:39 pm
JohnH wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 8:47 pm
GaryK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 2:38 pm We're talking about Christianity as an ideology, which is NT. I don't think you will find any NT scriptures that support Christians calling for any executions.


Agreed, but that is different than Christians calling for the executions of criminals.
Does the NT teach that Christians should call for leniency for criminals, particular for the type of crimes that are typically capital crimes?
Jesus: Mt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy. (NKJV)
We have seen the result of more horrible murders when the left sets criminals free (merciful?) then an innocent person loses their life. Where’s the mercy when that happens and a family loses their loved one oas the result of these criminals being set free? I have seen this on the news many times.
You still need to recognize the reason God expects government to “use the sword” although a Christian is not to rejoice at this, we certainly understand Gods wisdom.
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GaryK
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Re: briar patch

Post by GaryK »

Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 10:19 pm
GaryK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 9:39 pm
JohnH wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 8:47 pm

Does the NT teach that Christians should call for leniency for criminals, particular for the type of crimes that are typically capital crimes?
Jesus: Mt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy. (NKJV)
We have seen the result of more horrible murders when the left sets criminals free (merciful?) then an innocent person loses their life. Where’s the mercy when that happens and a family loses their loved one oas the result of these criminals being set free? I have seen this on the news many times.
As I mentioned earlier, Christianity is not right, left or center and I refuse to be drawn into such framing. Jesus is the one who said "Blessed are the merciful". He didn't say "Blessed are the merciful to those who one thinks deserve mercy" and that "it's okay to not be merciful to those who one thinks do not deserve mercy." So I guess you will have to take this up with Jesus.
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 10:19 pm You still need to recognize the reason God expects government to “use the sword” although a Christian is not to rejoice at this, we certainly understand Gods wisdom.
I'm happy to allow God to fulfill His purposes even when I can't always understand. When you say "a Christian is not to rejoice at this" are you suggesting that Christians should have a merciful attitude toward the criminal?
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Valerie
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Re: briar patch

Post by Valerie »

GaryK wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 8:07 am
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 10:19 pm
GaryK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 9:39 pm

Jesus: Mt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy. (NKJV)
We have seen the result of more horrible murders when the left sets criminals free (merciful?) then an innocent person loses their life. Where’s the mercy when that happens and a family loses their loved one oas the result of these criminals being set free? I have seen this on the news many times.
As I mentioned earlier, Christianity is not right, left or center and I refuse to be drawn into such framing. Jesus is the one who said "Blessed are the merciful". He didn't say "Blessed are the merciful to those who one thinks deserve mercy" and that "it's okay to not be merciful to those who one thinks do not deserve mercy." So I guess you will have to take this up with Jesus.
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 10:19 pm You still need to recognize the reason God expects government to “use the sword” although a Christian is not to rejoice at this, we certainly understand Gods wisdom.
I'm happy to allow God to fulfill His purposes even when I can't always understand. When you say "a Christian is not to rejoice at this" are you suggesting that Christians should have a merciful attitude toward the criminal?
Possibly this kind of mercy:

Jesus said:
Luke 17:2
King James Bible
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
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JohnH
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Re: briar patch

Post by JohnH »

GaryK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 9:39 pm
JohnH wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 8:47 pm Does the NT teach that Christians should call for leniency for criminals, particular for the type of crimes that are typically capital crimes?
Jesus: Mt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy. (NKJV)
That is exactly the kind of approach, though, that leads to church members and family members of Jeriah Mast asking for a lenient sentence at after his trial where he was convicted of multiple counts of grave immorality.

Likewise, it is the same kind of thing that led his dad/minister to drive around with him to harass his victims, where they were quoted scriptures just like the above to browbeat them into not testifying or talking to the police.

I simply don't think the NT teaches that. And this is something conservative Anabaptists keep getting really, really wrong.
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Soloist
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Re: briar patch

Post by Soloist »

JohnH wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 11:58 am
GaryK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 9:39 pm
JohnH wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 8:47 pm Does the NT teach that Christians should call for leniency for criminals, particular for the type of crimes that are typically capital crimes?
Jesus: Mt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy. (NKJV)
That is exactly the kind of approach, though, that leads to church members and family members of Jeriah Mast asking for a lenient sentence at after his trial where he was convicted of multiple counts of grave immorality.

Likewise, it is the same kind of thing that led his dad/minister to drive around with him to harass his victims, where they were quoted scriptures just like the above to browbeat them into not testifying or talking to the police.

I simply don't think the NT teaches that. And this is something conservative Anabaptists keep getting really, really wrong.

I think it does teach mercy. It’s really very simple if you take Jesus at His word.
It never teaches that mercy means no consequences especially after the new birth.
That may be the distorted aspect but not mercy.

The same argument is used on D/R, non-resistance and excommunication.
Just because evil has happened does not justify disobedience.
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GaryK
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Re: briar patch

Post by GaryK »

JohnH wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 11:58 am
GaryK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 9:39 pm
JohnH wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 8:47 pm Does the NT teach that Christians should call for leniency for criminals, particular for the type of crimes that are typically capital crimes?
Jesus: Mt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy. (NKJV)
That is exactly the kind of approach, though, that leads to church members and family members of Jeriah Mast asking for a lenient sentence at after his trial where he was convicted of multiple counts of grave immorality.

Likewise, it is the same kind of thing that led his dad/minister to drive around with him to harass his victims, where they were quoted scriptures just like the above to browbeat them into not testifying or talking to the police.

I simply don't think the NT teaches that. And this is something conservative Anabaptists keep getting really, really wrong.
As a Christian, do you have a merciful attitude toward Jeriah Mast and his dad?
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GaryK
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Re: briar patch

Post by GaryK »

Valerie wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 11:26 am
GaryK wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 8:07 am
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 10:19 pm

We have seen the result of more horrible murders when the left sets criminals free (merciful?) then an innocent person loses their life. Where’s the mercy when that happens and a family loses their loved one oas the result of these criminals being set free? I have seen this on the news many times.
As I mentioned earlier, Christianity is not right, left or center and I refuse to be drawn into such framing. Jesus is the one who said "Blessed are the merciful". He didn't say "Blessed are the merciful to those who one thinks deserve mercy" and that "it's okay to not be merciful to those who one thinks do not deserve mercy." So I guess you will have to take this up with Jesus.
Valerie wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 10:19 pm You still need to recognize the reason God expects government to “use the sword” although a Christian is not to rejoice at this, we certainly understand Gods wisdom.
I'm happy to allow God to fulfill His purposes even when I can't always understand. When you say "a Christian is not to rejoice at this" are you suggesting that Christians should have a merciful attitude toward the criminal?
Possibly this kind of mercy:

Jesus said:
Luke 17:2
King James Bible
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Do you think this verse is addressing mercy? Again. when you say "a Christian is not to rejoice at this" are you suggesting that Christians should have a merciful attitude toward the criminal?
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Valerie
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Re: briar patch

Post by Valerie »

GaryK wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 1:45 pm
Valerie wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 11:26 am
GaryK wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 8:07 am
As I mentioned earlier, Christianity is not right, left or center and I refuse to be drawn into such framing. Jesus is the one who said "Blessed are the merciful". He didn't say "Blessed are the merciful to those who one thinks deserve mercy" and that "it's okay to not be merciful to those who one thinks do not deserve mercy." So I guess you will have to take this up with Jesus.


I'm happy to allow God to fulfill His purposes even when I can't always understand. When you say "a Christian is not to rejoice at this" are you suggesting that Christians should have a merciful attitude toward the criminal?
Possibly this kind of mercy:

Jesus said:
Luke 17:2
King James Bible
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Do you think this verse is addressing mercy? Again. when you say "a Christian is not to rejoice at this" are you suggesting that Christians should have a merciful attitude toward the criminal?
Right, I was making a point. We need to discern when mercy is appropriate and when justice is.
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ohio jones
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Re: briar patch

Post by ohio jones »

Blessed are those who administer justice, for they shall have justice administered unto them.
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R7ehr
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Re: briar patch

Post by R7ehr »

JohnH wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2026 11:58 am
GaryK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 9:39 pm
JohnH wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2026 8:47 pm Does the NT teach that Christians should call for leniency for criminals, particular for the type of crimes that are typically capital crimes?
Jesus: Mt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy. (NKJV)
That is exactly the kind of approach, though, that leads to church members and family members of Jeriah Mast asking for a lenient sentence at after his trial where he was convicted of multiple counts of grave immorality.

Likewise, it is the same kind of thing that led his dad/minister to drive around with him to harass his victims, where they were quoted scriptures just like the above to browbeat them into not testifying or talking to the police.

I simply don't think the NT teaches that. And this is something conservative Anabaptists keep getting really, really wrong.
Probably where we get off track, is demanding mercy for ourselves, when the verse is really teaching us to extend mercy towards others.
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