Mary & Joseph

[Soloist]

Wife: to add to my previous comment, it reads like a wedding psalm, very similar to the Song of Solomon, so it seems to be pretty clear that it’s the bride and not the mother. part of this was referenced in Hebrews as pertaining to Jesus.

Psa 45:7  Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

[Valerie]

No, not on that case:
I googled the question because I had the same questions as you and it was proven to me years ago:
Yes, a queen can be the mother of a king.
When a king dies, his wife (the Queen Consort) becomes a Queen Dowager. If her son inherits the throne to become the new king, she can take the title of Queen Mother.

Was Mary married to a king? - No
Was Mary the Queen Consort? - No
Did she therefore become Queen Dowager? - No

So... how again does a woman become Queen by giving birth to a King? Oh, that's right - she doesn't.

Considering what Jeremiah wrote about the queen of heaven, I think it's next thing to blasphemy to say that the mother of Jesus was/is the queen of heaven.

Can’t you see the difference?
I really wouldn’t get upset about this.
I don’t have a problem giving Mary that honorable title, she is the only mother of the Messiah & King-
When James & John’s mother requested that her sons sit at his right hand, I think Instead of “them”, His mothet should have been given that place & she actually would be the queen, this is not something to get so freaked out about.

[Soloist]

No, not on that case:
I googled the question because I had the same questions as you and it was proven to me years ago:
Yes, a queen can be the mother of a king.
When a king dies, his wife (the Queen Consort) becomes a Queen Dowager. If her son inherits the throne to become the new king, she can take the title of Queen Mother.

Was Mary married to a king? - No
Was Mary the Queen Consort? - No
Did she therefore become Queen Dowager? - No

So... how again does a woman become Queen by giving birth to a King? Oh, that's right - she doesn't.

Considering what Jeremiah wrote about the queen of heaven, I think it's next thing to blasphemy to say that the mother of Jesus was/is the queen of heaven.

Can’t you see the difference?
I really wouldn’t get upset about this.
I don’t have a problem giving Mary that honorable title, she is the only mother of the Messiah & King-
When James & John’s mother requested that her sons sit at his right hand, I think Instead of “them”, His mothet should have been given that place & she actually would be the queen, this is not something to get so freaked out about.

She has a bestowed title by the Orthodox and at least its accurate.

[Ernie]

No, not on that case:
I googled the question because I had the same questions as you and it was proven to me years ago:
Yes, a queen can be the mother of a king.
When a king dies, his wife (the Queen Consort) becomes a Queen Dowager. If her son inherits the throne to become the new king, she can take the title of Queen Mother.

Was Mary married to a king? - No
Was Mary the Queen Consort? - No
Did she therefore become Queen Dowager? - No

So... how again does a woman become Queen by giving birth to a King? Oh, that's right - she doesn't.

Considering what Jeremiah wrote about the queen of heaven, I think it's next thing to blasphemy to say that the mother of Jesus was/is the queen of heaven.

Can’t you see the difference?
I really wouldn’t get upset about this.
I don’t have a problem giving Mary that honorable title, she is the only mother of the Messiah & King-
When James & John’s mother requested that her sons sit at his right hand, I think Instead of “them”, His mothet should have been given that place & she actually would be the queen, this is not something to get so freaked out about.

Its not a big deal if we are fine with making scripture say anything we want it to say.

[Valerie]

Wife: to add to my previous comment, it reads like a wedding psalm, very similar to the Song of Solomon, so it seems to be pretty clear that it’s the bride and not the mother. part of this was referenced in Hebrews as pertaining to Jesus.

Psa 45:7  Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Are you saying 45:7 is “the Church”?

I was going by my Orthodox Study Bible interpretation which I think makes more sense.

[Valerie]

Just a note to remind us, Psalm 45 (44 in Orthodox Bible) is a. “Prophetic” passage-
2 Peter 1:20
“ knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy, never came by the world of man, but holy man of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”

We should not try to interpret prophecy on our own.
I could share the Church’s breakdown of the prophecy’s interpretation if anyone is interested.

[mike]

Just a note to remind us, Psalm 45 (44 in Orthodox Bible) is a. “Prophetic” passage-
2 Peter 1:20
“ knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy, never came by the world of man, but holy man of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”

We should not try to interpret prophecy on our own.
I could share the Church’s breakdown of the prophecy’s interpretation if anyone is interested.

No, don't. Please take all that the Catholic and Orthodox churches have added to scripture about Mary to another thread if you insist on talking about it. I want to discuss what the scriptures say.

[Valerie]

Just a note to remind us, Psalm 45 (44 in Orthodox Bible) is a. “Prophetic” passage-
2 Peter 1:20
“ knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy, never came by the world of man, but holy man of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”

We should not try to interpret prophecy on our own.
I could share the Church’s breakdown of the prophecy’s interpretation if anyone is interested.

No, don't. Please take all that the Catholic and Orthodox churches have added to scripture about Mary to another thread if you insist on talking about it. I want to discuss what the scriptures say.

Okay, but Scripture is clear that not everything taught was written, some was oral passed down. Some was historical. Trying to figure out everything by Scripture alone starting from the Reformation forward is why this thread cannot answer your question.

2 Thessalonians 2:15

ESV

15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

[ohio jones]

Okay, but Scripture is clear that not everything taught was written, some was oral passed down.

If you posted it, it wouldn't be oral any more. Don't mess with 20 centuries of tradition!

[temporal1]

OP / P.1:

I'm interested in your thoughts.

(i believe) a theme that repeats throughout scriptures is the vast importance of faith, belief, submission, obedience
without “reason”.

OT figures like Hosea, Abraham, Job, Boaz, and others, modeled inexplicable faith and “insane” obedience, without typically required human reasoning. They didn’t “have to” believe, no one would have questioned if they didn’t, human laws were there to support disbelief. They chose to believe.

NT Thomas/Didymus famously doubted, then was blessed with living tangible proof
(proof, i think) was supposed to end all doubts everywhere forever! But here we are. Searching for letters.

John 27-29: https://biblehub.com/john/20-28.htm

27Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands.
Reach out your hand and put it into My side.
Stop doubting and believe.”

28Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!”

29Jesus said to him,
“Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”…

NT Jesus modeled perfection in obedience. In all circumstances, to His ultimate submission on the awful horrifying cross.