God and War

[JohnH]

War is never the answer or appropriate response. There are always better ways.

I don’t think that’s right. Your statement is more Gandhi than it is Jesus. I don’t support war, and I echo Barnhart’s sentiments but the statement that “there’s always a better way” is making a serious category error. It betrays a pacifism that is more in-line with Mennonite Action than it is with Anabaptism.

An obvious question is why God told the Israelites to go to war so many times.

War is not the right thing for us to, today, right now, as our Lord has told us not to go and fight. We are much like loyal soldiers to any other king, who don't fight when their king tells them not to.

[joshuabgood]

War is never the answer or appropriate response. There are always better ways.

I don’t think that’s right. Your statement is more Gandhi than it is Jesus. I don’t support war, and I echo Barnhart’s sentiments but the statement that “there’s always a better way” is making a serious category error. It betrays a pacifism that is more in-line with Mennonite Action than it is with Anabaptism.

The better way is the way of Jesus. Laying down ones own very life rather than killing others. Nobody's blood but our own.

[barnhart]

I think the category error HK mentions is to assume war is the same for humans as for God, ie. God does, so can I. This fails because of human limitations, God controls life and death because he is unlimited, we should not because we are limited. Just because God allows an elderly or unborn person to die does not mean we are also capable of that decision. Similarly God allows war, famine, earthquake, disease etc... for purposes beyond our understanding but that does not mean we should take those up as strategies also.

Back to the topic of this thread, Valerie seems clear she should support the war on Iran, is it also clear she should support unleashing a deadly virus on them? After all God has a track record of sending plagues on his enemies.

[Valerie]

I think the category error HK mentions is to assume war is the same for humans as for God, ie. God does, so can I. This fails because of human limitations, God controls life and death because he is unlimited, we should not because we are limited. Just because God allows an elderly or unborn person to die does not mean we are also capable of that decision. Similarly God allows war, famine, earthquake, disease etc... for purposes beyond our understanding but that does not mean we should take those up as strategies also.

Back to the topic of this thread, Valerie seems clear she should support the war on Iran, is it also clear she should support unleashing a deadly virus on them? After all God has a track record of sending plagues on his enemies.

I’m not in favor of war but I understand it.
Perhaps I side with Austin’s on just war theory.
I understand the reasons for this war- we’ve had a war on terrorism since 9/11. I’m in no way suggesting Christians should join the military but I also understand the testimonies of those who felt led to.

A Commander in Chief is responsible for protecting his country & this President cares about doing that (I.e. closing the borders until we are at safe numbers) Almost every day on the news I see where more harm is done by illegal immigrants, gross sins & fraud, I mean yesterday was a lot of news on it.

Chants of “Death to America” & “Death to Israel” isn’t just ‘a song’ to sing.

Day before yesterday, a terrorist tried to take down a plane going from Dubai to Israel. It’s been fascinating to watch the interviews of the people rescued on that flight which was nothing short of a miracle - it keeps getting reported as such.
Try to find the story- amazing.

[barnhart]

I’m not in favor of war but I understand it.
Perhaps I side with Austin’s on just war theory...

I try not to demand that all Christians agree with me on everything, so I can understand that on some level for you.

Have you read Augustine on just war? Before you accept it, you should probably make sure you actually agree with it. My guess is you and Augustine might have some areas of disagreement.

[Soloist]

I’m not in favor of war but I understand it.
Perhaps I side with Austin’s on just war theory...

I try not to demand that all Christians agree with me on everything, so I can understand that on some level for you.

Have you read Augustine on just war? Before you accept it, you should probably make sure you actually agree with it. My guess is you and Augustine might have some areas of disagreement.

It’s a fascinating read I can agree with some, more than I would’ve expected but his views are mostly stretched pretty far

[barnhart]

I’m not in favor of war but I understand it.
Perhaps I side with Austin’s on just war theory...

I try not to demand that all Christians agree with me on everything, so I can understand that on some level for you.

Have you read Augustine on just war? Before you accept it, you should probably make sure you actually agree with it. My guess is you and Augustine might have some areas of disagreement.

It’s a fascinating read I can agree with some, more than I would’ve expected but his views are mostly stretched pretty far

I overwhelmingly agree with him except for the few things I don't... My thoughts on reading his just war theory was this has never been put to practice. It commonly held as an unexamined theology but abandoned in actual practice for the more predictable, stable ground of Nationalism.

[Soloist]

I try not to demand that all Christians agree with me on everything, so I can understand that on some level for you.

Have you read Augustine on just war? Before you accept it, you should probably make sure you actually agree with it. My guess is you and Augustine might have some areas of disagreement.

It’s a fascinating read I can agree with some, more than I would’ve expected but his views are mostly stretched pretty far

I overwhelmingly agree with him except for the few things I don't... My thoughts on reading his just war theory was this has never been put to practice. It commonly held as an unexamined theology but abandoned in actual practice for the more predictable, stable ground of Nationalism.

I would have to reread it but I found the primary idea to be reasonable it’s just the core issue of what is a just war.

[JohnH]

I overwhelmingly agree with him except for the few things I don't... My thoughts on reading his just war theory was this has never been put to practice. It commonly held as an unexamined theology but abandoned in actual practice for the more predictable, stable ground of Nationalism.

I am hard-pressed to find any actual "just war" that meets Augustine's criteria in recent memory. I'm not even sure I could find much in ancient history. In particular, it requires no collateral damage of death to innocents and civilians - including property.

[Ernie]

I overwhelmingly agree with him except for the few things I don't... My thoughts on reading his just war theory was this has never been put to practice. It commonly held as an unexamined theology but abandoned in actual practice for the more predictable, stable ground of Nationalism.

I am hard-pressed to find any actual "just war" that meets Augustine's criteria in recent memory. I'm not even sure I could find much in ancient history. In particular, it requires no collateral damage of death to innocents and civilians - including property.

That is the question I like to ask friends who defend war.
If there was a civil war, and you ended up on one side and I on the other, and your side drafted you into the military, and your commander ordered my house (not with me and my family in it) to be bulldozed or bombed in order to further the war effort, would you follow orders?
If not, why not? Why would you save my house but not the house of someone you did not know? If war is sometimes necessary but you are not willing to do what needs to be done, how is it then necessary?

If "yes"... well... you are quite the friend.