Mary & Joseph

[mike]

Reading Luke 2, it is fascinating how stunned Mary & Joseph were, again and again, at the events that happened around their son. One has to wonder when the truth of who Jesus was actually dawned on them. Was it during his childhood or young adulthood? During his ministry? Or after his death and resurrection? In his early childhood, they really didn't appear to understand it at all.

16 They hurried off and found both Mary and Joseph, and the baby who was lying in the feeding trough. 17 After seeing them, they reported the message they were told about this child, 18 and all who heard it were amazed at what the shepherds said to them. 19 But Mary was treasuring up all these things in her heart and meditating on them.

(after Simeon's prophecy)

33 His father and mother were amazed at what was being said about Him.

(after finding him in the temple)

47 And all those who heard Him were astounded at His understanding and His answers. 48 When His parents saw Him, they were astonished, and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for You.” 49 “Why were you searching for Me?” He asked them. “Didn’t you know that I had to be in My Father’s house?”[ab] 50 But they did not understand what He said to them.

Mary "kept all these things in her heart," but that's not to say she understood any of this. I have to wonder when she and Joseph understood who they really had in their home. We are not told when Mary & Joseph ever really understood their son's real nature and identity. We just have this, the last mention of Mary in scripture:

Acts 1:14 All these were continually united in prayer, along with the women, including Mary the mother of Jesus, and His brothers.

Presumably, Mary was from then on simply one of the body of believers, who fully understood Jesus as the Son of God. Maybe she came to understand this through the process of his final days, death, and resurrection, or maybe even before then, like at least some of his disciples did.

I'm interested in your thoughts.

[barnhart]

We don't know what they were thinking but Joseph demonstrated a very high level of obedience by taking the pregnant Mary into marriage and by leaving his life behind and fleeing to Egypt. I wonder if he died without much affirmation for his difficult choices.

[mike]

We don't know what they were thinking but Joseph demonstrated a very high level of obedience by taking the pregnant Mary into marriage and by leaving his life behind and fleeing to Egypt. I wonder if he died without much affirmation for his difficult choices.

It is amazing how little we know about Jesus' family - mother, father, siblings.

[mike]

We don't know what they were thinking but Joseph demonstrated a very high level of obedience by taking the pregnant Mary into marriage and by leaving his life behind and fleeing to Egypt. I wonder if he died without much affirmation for his difficult choices.

Also, he did all of that not because he understood that Mary was pregnant with the Son of God, because he clearly didn't understand that even after Jesus was born, but for some other reason. What was that reason? He just loved Mary that much? He believed her story about the angel, and that there was no other man involved?

Or perhaps just because of his own angelic visit in a dream.

[Valerie]

We don't know what they were thinking but Joseph demonstrated a very high level of obedience by taking the pregnant Mary into marriage and by leaving his life behind and fleeing to Egypt. I wonder if he died without much affirmation for his difficult choices.

It is amazing how little we know about Jesus' family - mother, father, siblings.

The Orthodox Church does have more information on them through historical writings.

By the wedding of Cana Mary certainly knew his ability for miracles even though he had not done one publicly yet. And he was still subject to her by obeying her.

I think they knew more than what Scripture makes obvious but probably didn’t understand the whole scope of His abilities- jewish girls all knew that someday one of them would be the mother of the Messiah.

[JayP]

Mike is presuming too much and applying his opinion as true interpretation.

I disagree Mary did not understand a great deal, nor that Joseph’s amazement means he neither understood nor knew who Jesus was.

By the way, Jesus did not have siblings. I know (laughingly) that is going to set some off and we’ll hear about “brother of the Lord” and other bad translation.

Let me ask you something. You are aware that your betrothed will as a virgin bear a child via the Holy Ghost….NOTE, Joseph KNOWS this, and is the mother of the son of God. You are going to now sleep with her? Tradition is quite clear that Joseph was older than Mary.

Another note. Ireaneus (disciple of Polycarp a disciple of John who cared for Mary), Justin Martyr, Oregen all confirm this
These are people that knew John

[HondurasKeiser]

I think that’s called shoehorning. But I get it, you’re a zealous convert.

[HondurasKeiser]

JP Meier writes in Volume I of A Marginal Jew:

Paul, Mark, John, Josephus and perhaps Luke in Acts 1:14 speak independently of the “brother(s) of Jesus” (or the Lord). Most of their statements yoke the brothers (and at times sisters) directly with Mary the mother of Jesus in phrases like “his mother and his brothers.” [...] The Greek use of Josephus distinguishes between “brother and cousin,” [...] thus it is especially significant that Josephus, an independent 1st-century Jewish writer, calls James of Jerusalem, without further ado, “the brother of Jesus.” [...]
In the NT there is not a single clear case where “brother” means “cousin” or even “stepbrother,” while there are abundant cases of its meaning “physical brother” (full or half). This is the natural sense of adelphos in Paul, Mark and John; Matthew and Luke apparently followed and developed this sense. Paul’s usage is particularly important because, unlike Josephus or the evangelists, he is not simply writing about past events transmitted to him through stories in oral or written sources. He speaks of the brother(s) of the Lord as people he has known and met, people who are living even as he is writing. [...] And Paul, or a close disciple, shows that the Pauline tradition knew perfectly well the word for “cousin” (anepsios in Col 4:10). [...] [T]he most probable opinion is that the brothers and sisters of Jesus were his siblings. This interpretation of the NT texts was kept alive by at least some Church writers up until the late 4th century.

JP Meier:
Not a plain Mennonite.

[ken_sylvania]

Let me ask you something. You are aware that your betrothed will as a virgin bear a child via the Holy Ghost….NOTE, Joseph KNOWS this, and is the mother of the son of God. You are going to now sleep with her? Tradition is quite clear that Joseph was older than Mary.

Matthew makes it quite clear that Joseph didn't sleep with Mary before the child was born.

[JohnH]

Let me ask you something. You are aware that your betrothed will as a virgin bear a child via the Holy Ghost….NOTE, Joseph KNOWS this, and is the mother of the son of God. You are going to now sleep with her? Tradition is quite clear that Joseph was older than Mary.

Matthew makes it quite clear that Joseph didn't sleep with Mary before the child was born.

What I find odd is how Catholics claim that he never did so afterwards, despite Jesus having brothers. Quite an odd idea of marriage they have, there.