GaryK wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2026 7:18 am
Then why spend so much time on MN bashing a lost cause? Something I'm curious if your church supports? Also, that seems like a waste of time to me. Why not put your time and efforts into making sure your church and young people never move in direction more "liberal" than their parents and grandparents?
My church prefers to focus on the lost instead of focusing on other Anabaptists.
I care about people in my old church and my church in Australia that ceased to exist, a common problem of transitional churches. I also care about the young people there who have either abandoned any form of Anabaptist Christianity or Christianity at all. They were my friends.
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2026 3:37 pm
I would second that. I have worked alongside these people, know about half of their ministry. I would in no wise call them “transitional.”
What level of conservatism would people in that congregation’s parents and grandparents generally have had?
Is conservatism (political and in the church) the thing you are most concerned about?
I am most concerned with following Christ.
Transitionalism is inherently anti-Christ: it impedes mission work, local seekers joining and staying, and ultimately it preaches a false gospel that when one becomes more spiritual, one also becomes more worldly.
I am concerned about political conservatism that it stops making inroads in my own circles. Fortunately we already have a framework to discuss this and challenge it that doesn’t rely on adopting political liberalism.
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2026 7:35 am
No. He is just miffed because we won’t let him join. He is ineligible for membership in virtually all Moderate Conservative Mennonite churches.
It is no small coincidence that the church he is a member of is about the only conservative church he could join.
That’s not really fair given his experience was tolerated sexual problems from the top level. He only married after the fact.
He was hanging around one of our sister churches that has since left the conference. While I would call them somewhat transitional, morality was not a problem there.
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2026 7:35 am
No. He is just miffed because we won’t let him join. He is ineligible for membership in virtually all Moderate Conservative Mennonite churches.
It is no small coincidence that the church he is a member of is about the only conservative church he could join.
That’s not really fair given his experience was tolerated sexual problems from the top level. He only married after the fact.
He was hanging around one of our sister churches that has since left the conference. While I would call them somewhat transitional, morality was not a problem there.
I don’t know if that is the same church but I heard if from more than just him
GaryK wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2026 7:18 am
Then why spend so much time on MN bashing a lost cause? Something I'm curious if your church supports? Also, that seems like a waste of time to me. Why not put your time and efforts into making sure your church and young people never move in direction more "liberal" than their parents and grandparents?
My church prefers to focus on the lost instead of focusing on other Anabaptists.
One would never have picked up on that with the constant focus on other lost cause Anabaptists.
Change is part of life. Context changes. Needs change. Tech changes. People change. Merely playing defense and focusing on stasis I think is a doomed response and the opposite of growth. Each generation must find anew the Kingdom of God. It's like the wind...it lists to and fro and goes where it pleases I believe somebody taught once.
I would idealize being guided by the "true north" the person Jesus, and constantly transitioning to his values, his mores, etc. Perhaps the Kingdom of God can't be built by, and perhaps never was built by, institutional "protectionism" or "stasis."
joshuabgood wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2026 9:59 am
Change is part of life. Context changes. Needs change. Tech changes. People change. Merely playing defense and focusing on stasis I think is a doomed response and the opposite of growth. Each generation must find anew the Kingdom of God. It's like the wind...it lists to and fro and goes where it pleases I believe somebody taught once.
I would idealize being guided by the "true north" the person Jesus, and constantly transitioning to his values, his mores, etc. Perhaps the Kingdom of God can't be built by, and perhaps never was built by, institutional "protectionism" or "stasis."
"You can never step into the same river twice." -Heraclitus
There is a lot of truth here. Managing change is often more important than change itself. When the old orders resisted the adoption of cars it was a small matter since they played a small role in general society at that time. Now the same stance has greater implications. When some groups resisted chrome bumpers, it had a different meaning than the same choice does in an age when bumpers are painted from the factory. I was a member of a church that resisted the moustache at some point in history for specific reasons that haven't existed for a century, so they eventually changed it.
The way I see it there are two primary ways to fail with change, resist it on principle at the potential risk of loosing sight of greater things, or never resist at all and go where the forces of the world take you.