Anabaptist Perspectives and liberalism

[JohnH]

My sense is that AP is "liberal" in the sense that they dare to challenge the right wing political nationalism that has made significant inroads into the CA movement in the last 50 years.

As for being politically active "liberals," they aren't. I think, were leftist political action a real threat to the CA's, they would be challenging that. But it isn't.

Who knows, if there is a big leftward shift in the next couple of years they might get the chance to come from that angle.

There's already been a big leftward shift, but I don't see Anabaptist Perspectives speaking out at [all against the leftism and liberalism in broader Anabaptist circles. They do exist, after all.

They seem to be only razor-focused on Anabaptists who are "too conservative". No concern at all for the broader community.

[Soloist]

Wife: I listened to the Brian Martin talk from last December, and while he spent most of the time on Christian conservative politics, he actually say a couple things about addressing the liberal Christian. It also sounded like he was not advocating for attending protests. Pretty sure that the people you’re talking about came from the followers of the way group, which seemed to have a fallout with Anabaptist perspectives some years back.

I don’t know. I feel like it’s similar to the people who decide that since Jesus never spoke on women in ministry or homosexuality, He must have been OK with it. He was talking to Jews that didn’t typically have that problem. Just about all the left wingers Brian Martin is talking to are apparently not even Christians, but he did throw in one small nod to addressing the sin of trusting in politics for the liberal Christian also.

I have already mentioned some of my complaints about anabaptist perspectives, but I don’t think there’s enough information to make me think they are pushing left wing politics. My biggest thing is that somebody tells them to make an option audio only files for Anabaptist Origins just like they do for Anabaptist perspectives for conservatives and those who don’t wanna fill up their hard drives.

[JohnH]

Wife: I listened to the Brian Martin talk from last December, and while he spent most of the time on Christian conservative politics, he actually say a couple things about addressing the liberal Christian. It also sounded like he was not advocating for attending protests. Pretty sure that the people you’re talking about came from the followers of the way group, which seemed to have a fallout with Anabaptist perspectives some years back.

Admittedly, most of my time spent watching (or listening to) AP was back when AP seemed to primarily be a mouthpiece for Followers of the Way people, e.g.:
https://anabaptistperspectives.org/peop ... kuruvilla/

I hope I can be forgiven for thinking that AP has had substantial influence from people like.

I don’t know. I feel like it’s similar to the people who decide that since Jesus never spoke on women in ministry or homosexuality, He must have been OK with it. He was talking to Jews that didn’t typically have that problem. Just about all the left wingers Brian Martin is talking to are apparently not even Christians, but he did throw in one small nod to addressing the sin of trusting in politics for the liberal Christian also.

I am more concerned with the left-wingers who are Anabaptist and involved in left-wing politics, unless one wants to play a game that pretends that Anabaptists who are more liberal than you are don't exist or "aren't really Anabaptist". I think that's a bogus game to play, and I would also hesitate to just write them all off as "not even Christians".

However, it is painfully obvious that Anabaptism as a whole has deep inroads from both liberal-progressive, left-wing political movements, and "conservative", right-wing political movements. Some of these inroads are in the plain circles, and some are in the non-plain circles.

I have already mentioned some of my complaints about anabaptist perspectives, but I don’t think there’s enough information to make me think they are pushing left wing politics. My biggest thing is that somebody tells them to make an option audio only files for Anabaptist Origins just like they do for Anabaptist perspectives for conservatives and those who don’t wanna fill up their hard drives.

I would prefer they didn't, as then Anabaptist Perspectives would influence the bulk of conservative/Old Order/traditional/plain Anabaptists less.

[Ernie]

I believe this is an example of what Ernie was getting at. I have no idea what you are talking about in your last paragraph. I listen to most of their content and have not picked up on your characterization of them at all. Maybe you can point us to an example of what you are talking about.

They seem quite willing to give air time to concern about things like "Christian nationalism"; I have yet to see any airtime given to the problematic political inroads in more liberal Anabaptist circles.

That's what I'm getting to.

It basically makes it a farce to claim that they're just concerned about politics in general, because they aren't: they're only concerned about one particular political leaning.

I think that is a false accusation. They are concerned about both. But they feel no need to address the liberal side unless there is a significant percentage of their audience that is influenced that way. The small percentage that leans left rarely spends any time listening to Anabaptists perspectives.

[JohnH]

I think that is a false accusation. They are concerned about both. But they feel no need to address the liberal side unless there is a significant percentage of their audience that is influenced that way. The small percentage that leans left rarely spends any time listening to Anabaptists perspectives.

... I mean they could choose to try to reach that audience.

However, I think it's a totem of bias that it's only a "small percentage" that leans left. When I attended the CMC (the conference, not a church) back circa 2017, it was obvious just how deep the leftist-progressive political inroads were.

The audience consisted of youth who were majority plain-appearing, and the speaker (who was a woman, incidentally) was promoting absolute 100% top tier leftist-progressive dogma, albeit disguised to make it palatable for a plain audience.

[GaryK]

Admittedly, most of my time spent watching (or listening to) AP was back when AP seemed to primarily be a mouthpiece for Followers of the Way people, e.g.:
https://anabaptistperspectives.org/peop ... kuruvilla/

I hope I can be forgiven for thinking that AP has had substantial influence from people like.

Are you sure they aren't primarily a mouthpiece for Shippensburg Christian Fellowship?

https://anabaptistperspectives.org/people/john-martin/

[JohnH]

Admittedly, most of my time spent watching (or listening to) AP was back when AP seemed to primarily be a mouthpiece for Followers of the Way people, e.g.:
https://anabaptistperspectives.org/peop ... kuruvilla/

I hope I can be forgiven for thinking that AP has had substantial influence from people like.

Are you sure they aren't primarily a mouthpiece for Shippensburg Christian Fellowship?

https://anabaptistperspectives.org/people/john-martin/

I suppose perhaps we could talk a bit more about the background of whatever institution AP is and its founder; my impression is it was founded and run by people who belong to the "barely-still-plain Anabaptists" constituency in terms of where they sit on the continuum of tradition, conservatism vs liberalism, and so forth. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[GaryK]

Admittedly, most of my time spent watching (or listening to) AP was back when AP seemed to primarily be a mouthpiece for Followers of the Way people, e.g.:
https://anabaptistperspectives.org/peop ... kuruvilla/

I hope I can be forgiven for thinking that AP has had substantial influence from people like.

Are you sure they aren't primarily a mouthpiece for Shippensburg Christian Fellowship?

https://anabaptistperspectives.org/people/john-martin/

I suppose perhaps we could talk a bit more about the background of whatever institution AP is and its founder; my impression is it was founded and run by people who belong to the "barely-still-plain Anabaptists" constituency in terms of where they sit on the continuum of tradition, conservatism vs liberalism, and so forth. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Where did that impression come from? Do you know any of the people at the church in Athens, TN?

[JohnH]

Where did that impression come from? Do you know any of the people at the church in Athens, TN?

What constituency is it?

What church standards do they generally hold to (or not hold to), e.g.:

- mixed seating vs. separated seating for men and women
- members watch YouTube videos, DVDs, etc. vs members are encouraged not do that.
- members' phones generally have unfiltered internet vs. filtered internet vs. they don't use Internet on phones at all
- relaxed dress standards (skirts, shirts, veils, fashionable veils, etc.) vs. more prescribed style with a standard covering style vs. strict cape dresses, kapps, plain coats
- men wear athletic shorts in public vs men wear athletic pants in public vs. they would only be as relaxed as wearing jeans in public vs. they would not wear jeans but would only wear broadfalls, etc.

What groups do they find they share pulpits, visiting revival preachers, etc. with (Keystone / BMA / ADC vs Beachy but not ADC, Mid-Atlantic, etc. vs Pilgrim, Hope)

This shouldn't be a particularly hard question to answer. My impression was that is a formerly Beachy type background place that is now independent and would generally find itself aligned with ADC, but I might be wrong.

[GaryK]

Where did that impression come from? Do you know any of the people at the church in Athens, TN?

What constituency is it?

What church standards do they generally hold to (or not hold to), e.g.:

- mixed seating vs. separated seating for men and women
- members watch YouTube videos, DVDs, etc. vs members are encouraged not do that.
- members' phones generally have unfiltered internet vs. filtered internet vs. they don't use Internet on phones at all
- relaxed dress standards (skirts, shirts, veils, fashionable veils, etc.) vs. more prescribed style with a standard covering style vs. strict cape dresses, kapps, plain coats
- men wear athletic shorts in public vs men wear athletic pants in public vs. they would only be as relaxed as wearing jeans in public vs. they would not wear jeans but would only wear broadfalls, etc.

What groups do they find they share pulpits, visiting revival preachers, etc. with (Keystone / BMA / ADC vs Beachy but not ADC, Mid-Atlantic, etc. vs Pilgrim, Hope)

This shouldn't be a particularly hard question to answer. My impression was that is a formerly Beachy type background place that is now independent and would generally find itself aligned with ADC, but I might be wrong.

I think you would be wrong.