Litmus tests for various Christian groups

[Ernie]

(FWIW, I have not yet started washing my face and anointing my head with oil before I fast, and I don't know of anyone who does.)

I think you should wash your face. Just good basic hygene.

I agree.

Anointing one's head when fasting is not unheard of among conservative Mennonites, although I could say if the percentage of men who do so is closer to 10% or 50% of those who fast.

I assume you meant to say "couldn't".

So what do they anoint with if not with oil?

[ken_sylvania]

(FWIW, I have not yet started washing my face and anointing my head with oil before I fast, and I don't know of anyone who does.)

I think you should wash your face. Just good basic hygene.

I agree.

Anointing one's head when fasting is not unheard of among conservative Mennonites, although I could say if the percentage of men who do so is closer to 10% or 50% of those who fast.

I assume you meant to say "couldn't".

So what do they anoint with if not with oil?

Yes, I meant couldn't.

They even have the option to do it with oil if they want to. For instance:

[barnhart]

I have anointed my head before fasting but it was with shampoo in the shower.

[ken_sylvania]

Nice pun!

I'm curious what types of churches that do not wear the regulation might still make the cut.

For example, would you be allowed to share communion with a church that does not wear suit jackets of any kind normally, but if they wear one, it would be a straight cut suit? Would that work if all other significant factors are in place. For example: the women faithfully veil, wear modest clothing, etc.
Or would the women need to wear a certain kind of covering, cape dress, etc.

For instance, maybe a Nationwide Fellowship church in Mexico. Or, maybe, depending on circumstances a Baptist church in Russia. I was thinking where no suit is normally worn. Yes, all other significant factors would need to be in place and I'm honestly not sure exactly where the line would be. It would certainly be fringe cases and not routine. But it's simply not routine for us to take communion outside of our local congregation, and certainly not outside our district, unless we're living in another area for an extended period of time.

Would you be expected to get permission to commune elsewhere or is that up to the individual?

I don't know if there would be any consequences if a person did this on their own but I think failure to consult ahead of time would be disrespectful toward the congregation where I am a member. I imagine others would feel the same so I think it's fair to say I would be expected to consult ahead of time (the interaction would be somewhat different from simply "asking permission" although effectively would be about the same thing.

[joshuabgood]

I'm still interested in an answer to the question below that I asked earlier.

I wonder if it might be less confusing if "communing" (ie. sharing in communion, ie. bread and wine) and "fellowshipping" are clarified rather than used synonymously, considering that partaking of communion emblems is often restricted to members only or a particular litmus test (historically and contemporarily) among Anabaptists, particular more conservative ones, whereas fellowshipping tends to be far broader and more flexible.. Just a thought for anyone, not directly to Ken.

Here again, from my perspective, I wonder if this isn't a distinction without a difference. Where is the biblical data supporting such a framework dichotomy, where one would be in Christian fellowship and not "technically" in communion or breaking of bread. That is the model that I am trying to gracefully challenge...while at the same time, pointing out that "withholding" fellowship, which is in fact a "litmus" test, at least of sorts.

That's a fair question. To help flesh that out just a bit more, do you see biblical data supporting any kind of "tiered" fellowship where there are differing degrees of closeness of fellowship within the spectrum of those who follow Christ?

That is a good question. I am reflecting on it. I think my answer is I do support tiered fellowship though I cant think immediately of Biblical data. I am not sure though about the communion being the bar/tier.

I dont really have an answer that I find totally satisfying, long story short.

[Ernie]

For instance, maybe a Nationwide Fellowship church in Mexico. Or, maybe, depending on circumstances a Baptist church in Russia. I was thinking where no suit is normally worn. Yes, all other significant factors would need to be in place and I'm honestly not sure exactly where the line would be. It would certainly be fringe cases and not routine. But it's simply not routine for us to take communion outside of our local congregation, and certainly not outside our district, unless we're living in another area for an extended period of time.

Would you be expected to get permission to commune elsewhere or is that up to the individual?

I don't know if there would be any consequences if a person did this on their own but I think failure to consult ahead of time would be disrespectful toward the congregation where I am a member. I imagine others would feel the same so I think it's fair to say I would be expected to consult ahead of time (the interaction would be somewhat different from simply "asking permission" although effectively would be about the same thing.

So something like, "What thoughts do you have about me communing with X group while I am in ___?"

[Ernie]

I'm still interested in an answer to the question below that I asked earlier.

Here again, from my perspective, I wonder if this isn't a distinction without a difference. Where is the biblical data supporting such a framework dichotomy, where one would be in Christian fellowship and not "technically" in communion or breaking of bread. That is the model that I am trying to gracefully challenge...while at the same time, pointing out that "withholding" fellowship, which is in fact a "litmus" test, at least of sorts.

That's a fair question. To help flesh that out just a bit more, do you see biblical data supporting any kind of "tiered" fellowship where there are differing degrees of closeness of fellowship within the spectrum of those who follow Christ?

That is a good question. I am reflecting on it. I think my answer is I do support tiered fellowship though I cant think immediately of Biblical data. I am not sure though about the communion being the bar/tier.

I dont really have an answer that I find totally satisfying, long story short.

We live in an era in which Christians who meet the orthodoxy test in a broad way, do not feel a need to live in deference to each other's ideas about orthodoxy and orthopraxy. This started a very, very long time ago and it is hard for me to imagine returning to this anytime soon. So until then, it seems like we are forced to have some tiered levels of fellowship.

[Ernie]

Here again, from my perspective, I wonder if this isn't a distinction without a difference. Where is the biblical data supporting such a framework dichotomy, where one would be in Christian fellowship and not "technically" in communion or breaking of bread. That is the model that I am trying to gracefully challenge...while at the same time, pointing out that "withholding" fellowship, which is in fact a "litmus" test, at least of sorts.

This perspective requires that a person assess whether everyone is in Christian fellowship correct? By drawing the line on communion/breaking of bread, one does not need to make that assessment.

I am not sure if I am following.

But I think, refusing Christian fellowship/community/communion (which to me are inseparable I think), is making an assessment.

I am not sure though about the communion being the bar/tier.

I assume you do draw a line on who you commune with? If so, where do you draw that line?

[joshuabgood]

This perspective requires that a person assess whether everyone is in Christian fellowship correct? By drawing the line on communion/breaking of bread, one does not need to make that assessment.

I am not sure if I am following.

But I think, refusing Christian fellowship/community/communion (which to me are inseparable I think), is making an assessment.

I am not sure though about the communion being the bar/tier.

I assume you do draw a line on who you commune with? If so, where do you draw that line?

My canned response is that we know what the two most important things are because they asked Jesus. And if those two most important things are centered I will commune with them. (Of.course the question is - well how do you know if those two most important conditions are filled.)

[Ernie]

I am not sure if I am following.

But I think, refusing Christian fellowship/community/communion (which to me are inseparable I think), is making an assessment.

I am not sure though about the communion being the bar/tier.

I assume you do draw a line on who you commune with? If so, where do you draw that line?

My canned response is that we know what the two most important things are because they asked Jesus. And if those two most important things are centered I will commune with them. (Of.course the question is - well how do you know if those two most important conditions are filled.)

Yes. That is what I am asking.
Some of us have answers for that question.