Fraud Throughout Driving Schools

[JohnH]

How much of a problem is this? And if it is a problem.

It's a significant problem; you can read about this in a variety of mainstream sources.

how much of the problem involves native born Americans who do speak English?

Presumably, the problems include American citizens who don't understand English; American citizens who are illiterate and can't read road signs; and aliens, both legal and illegal, who also either can't understand English or else are illiterate.

Where is there a non-political overview of this that is not geared toward riling people up with Internet angst?

Can we all just stop being "useful idiots" for worldly factions?

Boot, there is actually a real problem. In my local town, there is a shortcut road that has a clearly posted sign that says "No trucks". Google Maps tends to route over it anyway, so truck drivers kept taking it over and over, and would then end up stuck at a tight turn, and eventually one knocked over a utility pole at the turn, which caused power to go out on that block for a day or two until it could be fixed.

The fine is $100, and the local government reported that the truck drivers were taking the shortcut because they could not understand the "No trucks" sign, and generally had difficulty communicating in English at all. I don't think it's important to discuss the national origin, citizenship status, or immigration status of those truck drivers, but I do think it's important to discuss that in my local area, we have a problem of a large number of truck drivers who have illegitimately obtained CDLs.

I think it's actually good for legal aliens to expect them to obtain CDLs lawfully and meeting all applicable safety and training standards and regulations, and expect the same of citizens as well. Under current regulations, illegal aliens cannot lawfully obtain a valid CDL.

[mike]

So, what's your position on people who fraudulent hold CDLs (i.e. anyone who holds a CDL who cannot read and understand English), regardless of citizenship, immigration, mother language, etc. status?

Do you think that's OK, or do you consider it a rather corrosive effect on society when we have that kind of mass lawlessness?

How much of a problem is this? And if it is a problem. how much of the problem involves native born Americans who do speak English? Where is there a non-political overview of this that is not geared toward riling people up with Internet angst?

Can we all just stop being "useful idiots" for worldly factions?

This is an actual problem.

I was surprised that my state of PA was in the running with Texas with the largest number of schools shut down in any state - 13 schools. News releases did not name the schools but supposedly you can find them manually here: https://tpr.fmcsa.dot.gov/provider/removed

And this was not just a federal action.

Pennsylvania Has Already Taken Action
The federal crackdown comes just weeks after Pennsylvania strengthened its own oversight of commercial driver training schools.

Legislation championed by Sen. Judy Ward and supported by the Pennsylvania Motor Truck Association gives the Pennsylvania Department of Education stronger enforcement tools against unlicensed commercial driving schools, including civil penalties of up to $25,000.

PMTA supported the legislation as part of its broader efforts to protect the integrity of Pennsylvania's commercial driver licensing system and ensure responsible training providers and motor carriers are not put at a disadvantage by those willing to cut corners.

I deal with driver after driver who can barely communicate in English. I have no way of knowing if any of them are illegals. In the last several years I've seen many drivers who can't follow basic road rules such as no trucks in the left lane in tunnels and who put themselves and others in high danger as a result. Again, I can't tell if the Indian in the driver's seat is a legal immigrant. Just last week on the same run I followed several trucks who were weaving from lane to lane and who were obvious immigrants - again, no idea if they were legal. But it has been clear that the massive truck driver hiring boom that occurred several years back has had some really bad results. The Biden government was incentivizing basically anybody with two arms to drive trucks because there was a real shortage. A driver based out of California told me that you can get a CD there for about $2,000 - far less than the average $5-8K that it often costs elsewhere.

It doesn't surprise me whatsoever that those programs resulted in illegal aliens and the organizations profiting from training programs being able to get CDLs for just about anybody legal or not.

[R7ehr]

Can we all just stop being "useful idiots" for worldly factions?

What’s worse than a useful idiot? A useless idiot.
If we are going to be idiots, we might as well be useful.

[Valerie]

Can we all just stop being "useful idiots" for worldly factions?

What’s worse than a useful idiot? A useless idiot.
If we are going to be idiots, we might as well be useful.

I don’t appreciate Boots name calling the last couple days.
Boot it would behoove you to listen to the Angel families that have lost loved ones or terribly permanently disabled from the drivers & other “murders & rapists”who are begging people to quit caring more about the legal immigrants then they do those who have been hurt, killed, raped or harmed-
I guess they’d be surprised Christians seem to care more about bout them than legal citizens. I’ve heard the Angel families speak several times. Hear their cry!

[JohnH]

I don’t appreciate Boots name calling the last couple days.
Boot it would behoove you to listen to the Angel families that have lost loved ones or terribly permanently disabled from the drivers & other “murders & rapists”who are begging people to quit caring more about the legal immigrants then they do those who have been hurt, killed, raped or harmed-
I guess they’d be surprised Christians seem to care more about bout them than legal citizens. I’ve heard the Angel families speak several times. Hear their cry!

A young mother and her new baby were killed when a truck driver decided not to slow down for stopped traffic in a construction zone. Of course, this was someone who (I presume) is a U.S. citizen and a fluent English speaker & reader, and had passed CDL training, but it turns out she had numerous problems in her history with the state institution that oversees such things of her truck being out of service and other problems not meeting applicable regulations.

It would appear that the trucking industry needs stronger regulation and oversight, not less, and in particular the amount of truck accidents with fatalities has gone up significantly over the past decade; rates were improving with a low in 2009, but have increased since then, and in the last 6 years have gone up sharply.

I find the attitude to dismiss this just because there's a possibility it might not be congratulatory of immigrants to be an odd one.

[Valerie]

I don’t appreciate Boots name calling the last couple days.
Boot it would behoove you to listen to the Angel families that have lost loved ones or terribly permanently disabled from the drivers & other “murders & rapists”who are begging people to quit caring more about the legal immigrants then they do those who have been hurt, killed, raped or harmed-
I guess they’d be surprised Christians seem to care more about bout them than legal citizens. I’ve heard the Angel families speak several times. Hear their cry!

A young mother and her new baby were killed when a truck driver decided not to slow down for stopped traffic in a construction zone. Of course, this was someone who (I presume) is a U.S. citizen and a fluent English speaker & reader, and had passed CDL training, but it turns out she had numerous problems in her history with the state institution that oversees such things of her truck being out of service and other problems not meeting applicable regulations.

It would appear that the trucking industry needs stronger regulation and oversight, not less, and in particular the amount of truck accidents with fatalities has gone up significantly over the past decade; rates were improving with a low in 2009, but have increased since then, and in the last 6 years have gone up sharply.

I find the attitude to dismiss this just because there's a possibility it might not be congratulatory of immigrants to be an odd one.

I meant “illegal immigrants” in my above posts- when the federal department of transportation put on a news conference the other day it was quite alarming & upsetting thus leading to the closing of many schools. It’s dangerous enough to share the highways with so many semis & poor drivers let alone the present situation.

I remember decades ago they were giving licenses to Vietnamese refugees in California- and I got in a bad accident when one made a left in front of me- I had my young children in the car & it was totaled butcher were okay but I felt he should have known not to do that! At the time people there were concerned about giving licenses out too easily. It is dangerous.

[JohnH]

My opinion is that the technology exists now to have a "driving simulator", and people who want to drive should do a large number of hours in them (perhaps 40 hours for a regular passenger car, and 80+ hours for trucks, etc.) where their driving skills can be tested, including handling emergency scenarios, and driving for long stretches of time when sleepiness might happen.

[Valerie]

My opinion is that the technology exists now to have a "driving simulator", and people who want to drive should do a large number of hours in them (perhaps 40 hours for a regular passenger car, and 80+ hours for trucks, etc.) where their driving skills can be tested, including handling emergency scenarios, and driving for long stretches of time when sleepiness might happen.

I learned to drive in 1973. We had simulators back then and they were wonderful for training! We had to take a semester at school of drivers training which included the simulators and on the road training with our driving instructor plus a certain amount of hours with our parents so you had a permit for six months before you could get your license, but you are well trained by that time.

[Bootstrap]

Can we all just stop being "useful idiots" for worldly factions?

What’s worse than a useful idiot? A useless idiot.
If we are going to be idiots, we might as well be useful.

I don’t appreciate Boots name calling the last couple days.

I don't think this is name calling, I'm describing s specific phenomenon. There's a political move to own a news cycle, there are people trying to polarize around emotional words, branding immigrants as toxic, a threat to everyone, using disease metaphors, implying that they are all murderers and rapists ... and that kind of bypasses the logical process.

Beyond that, projecting motives onto anyone who disagrees with you, or implying that people who disagree with you have no idea what Fox News is saying or what Trump is putting out on Truth Social or what White House press releases say.

Here's an example:

Boot it would behoove you to listen to the Angel families that have lost loved ones or terribly permanently disabled from the drivers & other “murders & rapists”who are begging people to quit caring more about the legal immigrants then they do those who have been hurt, killed, raped or harmed-
I guess they’d be surprised Christians seem to care more about bout them than legal citizens. I’ve heard the Angel families speak several times. Hear their cry!

Nobody is saying that at all. But some of us are saying that all human beings should be treated like human beings. And when the people who drive our news cycle and social media feeds try to make us feel "murderers and rapists" every time we hear the word "immigrant", I think we should think seriously about how this played out with other groups in American history.

Why support the rich and powerful in their campaign to target the vulnerable? Why target specific people BY NAME in online forums when they have been convicted of nothing? Is that REALLY the way Christians should behave?

[Bootstrap]

This is an actual problem.

I was surprised that my state of PA was in the running with Texas with the largest number of schools shut down in any state - 13 schools. News releases did not name the schools but supposedly you can find them manually here: https://tpr.fmcsa.dot.gov/provider/removed

And this was not just a federal action.

Pennsylvania Has Already Taken Action
The federal crackdown comes just weeks after Pennsylvania strengthened its own oversight of commercial driver training schools.

Legislation championed by Sen. Judy Ward and supported by the Pennsylvania Motor Truck Association gives the Pennsylvania Department of Education stronger enforcement tools against unlicensed commercial driving schools, including civil penalties of up to $25,000.

PMTA supported the legislation as part of its broader efforts to protect the integrity of Pennsylvania's commercial driver licensing system and ensure responsible training providers and motor carriers are not put at a disadvantage by those willing to cut corners.

Thanks - so this is helpful information.

Unlicensed driving schools should be shut down. And licensed ones should be monitored. This is, of course, called "regulation", something the government has done less and less of recently, especially in areas where fraud is rampant. I think this should also be extended to tax fraud, stock fraud, cryptocurrency fraud and money laundering, and other areas of fraud.